Europe's Leading Statesman Gives 'Em Hell

[claig]

Farage addresses the European Parliament after historic Brexit vote.

He says "most of you have never had a real job in your lives" and they all nod in agreement. Farage says "the little people defied the multinationals" and the multinationals sadly agree.

As Farage speaks to the world, puppets panic, stooges are stunned, elitists take a lie down, globalists are gobsmacked and the people party.

At the end of Farage's speech, the Establishment broadcast their pre-recorded booing tape in order to drown out the roar of defiance of the British people.

After Farage, Marine Le Pen speaks and says that the Brexit vote is the biggest event in Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

claig

There was an interesting discussion on Law in Action on R4 today. It had 3 law professors explaining the legal aspects and democracy in detail.

Worth listening to.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07kdsdl

'If you are so interested in government and structure and politics - take a degree in it.'

I'm not that interested in it. i am just a voter who decides on what I think makes sense.

is not offensive because I am talking about the majority which is how democracy works

Who are the people?

Farage said this was a vote for real, decent ordinary people. So how would you describe those who didn't vote to leave?

Ah love to see a Brexiteer calling democracy when it was such an important reason in the EU vote, you know the one where the UK lost on votes 10% of the time since 1994.

Yet when 48% of the population don't want something, we are told a 4% majority ( far too small to pass in the EU) is enough to claim democracy.

How can you know waht makes sense if you have no understanding of how the system works?

'And I'm still unimpressed as to how you define and think of the "Establishment". It now appears that, besides anti- and pro-Establishment, you have "good Establishment" e.g. Donald Trump, and "bad Establishment", i.e. any views you don't like.'

No, there is an Establishment at any point in time. Some thing it does are good and some are bad, in my opinion. I oppose what I think is bad and wrong by politically voting for a party that opposes those issues. That way if my party wins, i get to change the Establishment to what I think is a more balanced one.

That is what happened in this Referendum. Against all the market predictions etc, the people (i.e. the majority) changed the direction and policy of the Establishment who all say "we will respect the will of the British people"

I preferred the dignity of many of the other speakers & Scottish MEP Alyn Smith.

Sovereignty was never really issue. The UK is a sovereign state & our parliament is the supreme legislation. EU is not a sovereign state, not even a sovereign entity. EU only has powers which have been given under the EU treaties. When UK courts give priority to EU law it's because the UK parliament has instructed them to do so in our own legislation.

When people talk about sovereignty they usually mean power & influence. The UK did have a lot of power & influence in the EU.

Incidentally, the price Norway and Switzerland pay for free access to the EU common market is the free movement of people. Indeed there are reasons why a true free common market almost inevitably involves open borders. This is why non-EU Switzerland actually has a greater proportion of migrants than the UK.

If Boris can somehow con the EU in giving us full access to their common market, while not having open borders with the rest of the EU, he will have proved to be an even more successful con artist than he has so far proved to be.

'How can you know waht makes sense if you have no understanding of how the system works?'

They give me the vote, so I do my best to make a decision that makes sense to me just like everyone else does including those who decide it is not worth voting

'We didn't vote on a plan. That's the whole bloody problem, we voted on an idea with no plan attached to it whatsoever.'

Yes because we voted on a principle, did we want to leave or stay, did we want to restore full sovereignty or continue sharing it. Plans will follow in the years to come and we can vote for or against then

Arguing with Claig is like arguing with a toddler.

There is no logic, and nothing is really thought through.

It really is pointless.

"Who are the people?

the voters

"Farage said this was a vote for real, decent ordinary people. So how would you describe those who didn't vote to leave?"

To me we are all the people who disagreed on this issue. What I think Farage meant by decent people is ordinary people as opposed to the elite political class and Establishment and business and banking power, whom they had tried to scare and even describe as racists

Yawn, same old same old. Opinions based on nothing but hot air.

claig
"No it is not offensive because I am talking about the majority which is how democracy works."

Now if the majority of Scots vote to leave the UK, would you accept that?

"Incidentally, the price Norway and Switzerland pay for free access to the EU common market is the free movement of people. Indeed there are reasons why a true free common market almost inevitably involves open borders."

We are the 5th largest economy in the world and the EU's biggest market. I am sure anyone half competent could get a deal not involving free movement. America has a free trade deal with Mexico and Canada but there is no free movement.

I don't think Boris will deliver it because I think he will deliver what business wants

'Now if the majority of Scots vote to leave the UK, would you accept that?'

Absolutely, because they a separate nation, not just a city like London

It is now very clear that those people who dismissed posters life experiences as anecdotes, as not based on reality and not reflective of the 'reality' depicted in their precious stats and data are now battling to grasp why those same people, whose concerns have been ignored and who have been told they are wrong; have now voted as they have.

And it explains in the most basic level why people voted leave. Simply because they do not want to be a number on a database in Brussels. An anecdote that the experts can ignore as it's not in line with their stats.

The people voted to have their voices heard when no one would listen.

It really is not hard to grasp...

JaWellNoFine, agree it is just the wish for independence, self-government and democracy

My God, I thought this was a spoof when I first read it but you're actually for real. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad that our country is in the state it is. (OK I'm laughing a bit)

"We are the 5th largest economy in the world and the EU's biggest market. I am sure anyone half competent could get a deal not involving free movement"

6th biggest economy, France over took us when we left.

The EU without us is still the largest economy in the world, and several leaders have come out today saying that there will be no cherry picking, as we said prior to the vote.

Oh dear, oh dear, keep trotting out the lines, but it doesn't make them anymore likely.

Also the EU exports 15% to us, we export 44% to them, our trade with them is mainly services which come from the financial sector which are easy to move to EU centres by the MNCs that provide them. The UK trade is worth 3% of EU GDP, EU trade is worth 15% of ours.

Who holds the cards?

Spout the same old line if you like, its not valid, it won't work, and displays a towering ignorance of economics and international trade.

Duped by the extreme neo liberal establishment into voting out, so they can make things for the little guy worse.

Oh Claig, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

"Absolutely, because they a separate nation, not just a city like London"

Good for you! Although I hope they don't leave the UK, although it appears more likely that they will one day - passports at Berwick.

But you know, "nation" is not an immortal entity. History is full of nations which have merged, broken up, or simply disappeared. And there are, and have been, numerous city-states.

Even if not "independence", I think there is a good case to be made for those areas which have most to lose from Brexit, to have good deal more autonomy than they have at present. Such as London. Boris certainly wanted to push for more autonomy for London when he was Mayor, although I'm not sure whether he really believed it, as I'm not sure about anything he says.

We are the 5th largest economy in the world

Are we? The UK fell to 6th place on Friday & I'm not sure things have improved enough to make us 5th again

and the EU's biggest market

UK is the largest single goods export market but it only makes up about 16% of goods that the other EU countries export. to the rest of the world. Proportionally the EU exports 13% of it's GPD to us whereas the Uk exports only 3% of GDP to them.

I have a feeling Claig is ignoring me, wonder why that is?

JaWellNoFine, agree it is just the wish for independence, self-government and democracy

You already had all that, so what was it really about? Too many dark skinned people knocking about, letsbe honest here.

cos it's all bollocks and bluster.