Europe's Leading Statesman Gives 'Em Hell

[claig]

Farage addresses the European Parliament after historic Brexit vote.

He says "most of you have never had a real job in your lives" and they all nod in agreement. Farage says "the little people defied the multinationals" and the multinationals sadly agree.

As Farage speaks to the world, puppets panic, stooges are stunned, elitists take a lie down, globalists are gobsmacked and the people party.

At the end of Farage's speech, the Establishment broadcast their pre-recorded booing tape in order to drown out the roar of defiance of the British people.

After Farage, Marine Le Pen speaks and says that the Brexit vote is the biggest event in Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

'Although I hope they don't leave the UK, although it appears more likely that they will one day'

I don't think they will because I think the EU will not exist in 10 years' time, I think it is the beginning of the end of the EU. So even if Scotland is not keen on being in a union with us, for economic reasons, I think they will stay with us as 63% of their trade is with us

'History is full of nations which have merged, broken up, or simply disappeared. And there are, and have been, numerous city-states.'

Absolutely, but our union and nation state have been extremely stable and successful for all of us. The elite want to move to city states and break nations which is why they are beginning to float London as a separate entity ideas, but the people have beaten the elite and all their plans are now on hold.

I am not keen on too much auronomy for regions as it will eventually lead to break up of the nation. I prefer PR voting and referenda as a mechanism of putting decisions to the whole country instead

Plans will follow in the years to come and we can vote for or against then

Erm, no probably not. There is no requirement for any "plan" to be put to a further referendum. We could well end up with a Norwegian or Swiss style deal which arguably would not restore full sovereignty as we would still have to accept numerous EU regulations and freedom of movement. We voted on something very, very vague indeed as is becoming blatantly obvious.

One of the key reasons the Scottish independence referendum was unsuccessful was because the plans were too vague on many aspects - and that was in spite of a several hundred page wish list white paper from the SNP. Yet people voted to leave the EU based on some soundbites from a couple of eejits.

'I have a feeling Claig is ignoring me, wonder why that is?'

I'm not but I am struggling to keep up with all these questions. What did you say?

'We could well end up with a Norwegian or Swiss style deal which arguably would not restore full sovereignty as we would still have to accept numerous EU regulations and freedom of movement. We voted on something very, very vague indeed as is becoming blatantly obvious. '

Yes because the Leave team was not a government, it had no power to do anything. We voted to leave, that is all. In the future we can vote out governments that do not do a good deal

I don't think they will because I think the EU will not exist in 10 years' time, I think it is the beginning of the end of the EU

The arrogance of thinking that because you left it will all break up is breathtaking. The EU is going nowhere. Only the far right and the facists in Europe want out, everyone else is happy to be in the EU. We will go from strength to strength without you, and you will be knocking on the door in a fewyears begging to be let back in.

"cos it's all bollocks and bluster."

What me or Claig?

claig.

Hoping for the end of the EU and thinking that the UK would be OK is just an example of how far you have gone Claig.

Your arguments are meaningless.

'One of the key reasons the Scottish independence referendum was unsuccessful was because the plans were too vague on many aspects - and that was in spite of a several hundred page wish list white paper from the SNP. Yet people voted to leave the EU based on some soundbites from a couple of eejits.'

Yes because we weren't interested in plans because we don't beleiev a word the politicians say, so a plan is irrelevant. All we wanted to do was leave. In Scotland Project Fear over the economy scared some voters, in the EU Referendum, Cameron and the team's Project Fear didn't even scare the horses. We mocked it.

Btw, Farage is hardly a statesman. More an enfant terrible.

A true statesman wouldn't have lied blatantly and would have a plan for the exit, not just wishful thinking. I almost wish he's was given a chance as PM to see how good he'd be for the little people.

You mocked it, and look what happened.

Oh its great that our national debt will now cost us more, from this month onwards. Its wonderful that FDI projects suggested are being put on hold, its great that the pound is on the slide and that banks had to take 3 billion from the BOE to steady the 3 trillion losses made Yesterday and Friday.

Project fear? Project fact more like

Now how about Project Paranoid delusion ? Which is essentially what you are pusing.

Really? You think so? I think you are wrong.

They may have all that in theory but not in reality. The people who voted leave have had not say in anything for a long time. They may vote but we choose between two sides of the same coin. Both comprised of money grabbing self interested fuckwits. That is no choice.

How would have like the leavers, who are not that wealthy (or very bright, apparently ) to have made themselves heard. Knowing that we are talking about the people in society who have been ignored or told they are wrong up until now.

I just think we need to wind our necks in and work on solutions and stop the hate.

I think Claig is too scared to respond to me.

You know your wrong, and that I can take any argument you give and shred it.

The constant reference to "project fear" became entirely insulting throughout the Scottish referendum because it was constantly used to shout down those who pointed out then potential weaknesses in the arguments. Of which there were very, very many. I saw exactly the same this time, lalala fingers in the ear we won't listen to any experts, it's all lies. Except it wasn't all lies in Scotland (see falling oil prices for a prime example) and it isn't all lies here either.

To say that a plan is irrelevant and you can just vote out any party who presents a European option you don't like is rather simplistic. But then, that defines all of your arguments - more holes than a sieve.

It's like having a discussion with Microsoft's chatbot

'You know your wrong, and that I can take any argument you give and shred it.'

You say my arguments are "meaningless" etc They are opinions not arguments.

To anser your point about turmoil in the markets, I think those will be rectified when we get some stability and publicise a plan after the new PM is in place. We have had financial turmoil before, when we were in the EU. We will get over it.

"Germany’s Largest Bank Says Massive UK Growth After Brexit – BBC and Remainers Silent"

www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/15/germans-largest-bank-says-massive-uk-grown-brexit-bbc-remainers-silent/

claig

The free market situation between USA, Canada, Mexico is not as close as that between EU countries, and in any case only involves 3 countries, not 28 (soon to be 27).

We will almost certainly not get a free common market with the EU without free movement. Why would the EU treat us any more favourably than they treat Norway and Switzerland. As pointed out in smallfox1980's post above, the EU holds almost all the cards in any negotiation.

I now have almost no respect for Boris Johnson, but precisely because he is an unprincipled conman, he might get us as favourable a deal as is possible. Nigel Farage, with his triumphalist braying, and insulting people who, especially now, we need as friends, certainly won't.

If I had a choice, I would suggest a combination of Douglas Carswell, Theresa May, George Osborne and Iain Duncan-Smith to negotiate - without very much optimism.

But perhaps the best thing is to prepare for the worst. Higher taxes, high inflation, more unemployment (as firms relocate to the EU), welfare cuts, including the NHS (that £300 million or so was largely a mirage), etc.etc.

And be proud of it! We're willing to suffer all the possibly dire consequences, because we are a proud nation, and we have our sovereignty back!

I am not being sarcastic there. Had the Brexit campaign adopted that as their main plank, and not playing on fears on immigration (80 million Turks were not going to move here), and false economics, I would have had much more respect for them. Not that the Remainers didn't tell their share of half-truths as well. The whole "debate" on the Referendum was one of the most depressing things I've witnessed in my 70 years on this planet.

One bank, taken from an article published prior to the vote ( they may think very different now) interpreted by a right wing website to mean that the whole sector will grow.

Oh wow, you really are grasping at straws, it also proves that you are quite prepared to quote "experts" when you think they back your point but accuse every other expert of "project fear" when they have finding that oppose your views. You really aren't an intellectual challenge are you

This doesn't btw mean that the UK economy is going to be good following brexit, it talks of "returns" which probably means that you will be able to buy low when the currency and share price crash and sell for a profit a bit later on even if they raise a couple of points.

Argument shredded.

And if its not an "argument" but an opinion, remember this, its fine to have an opinion, but not all of them have equal validity. Yours certainly are invalid to the point of ridiculousness.

'the EU holds almost all the cards in any negotiation'

With Team Cameron, I think you are right. But hopefully, we may be lucky and get someone with some common sense to make a better deal. We will have to wait and see.

'If I had a choice, I would suggest a combination of Douglas Carswell, Theresa May, George Osborne and Iain Duncan-Smith to negotiate - without very much optimism.'

That is a good team, apart from Osborne. But it needs to have Labour representation - Franke Field, Gisela Stuart, John Mills, Kate Hoey etc

'The whole "debate" on the Referendum was one of the most depressing things I've witnessed in my 70 years on this planet.'

I think the main fault lies with the Establishment team. They are supposed to have all the whizzkids. Why couldn't they grill Leave and expose flaws? Banging on about the £350 million was an own goal because it just reminded all of us that it was a lot of money either way. They were useless and came out with incressingly ludicrous projections fed to them by a whizzkid on weed and in the end people couldn't hear what they said for laughing.

'it also proves that you are quite prepared to quote "experts" when you think they back your point '

Yes, because you have to realise that millions and millions of Leavers don't believe a word Cameron, Osborne and Hillary Benn say. We actually believe Corbyn because he doesn't engage in scaremongering and we think he is telling his real opinion. So to every untruth we think we are fed by Cameron, we can find someone saying the opposite.

'This doesn't btw mean that the UK economy is going to be good following brexit, it talks of "returns" which probably means that you will be able to buy low when the currency and share price crash and sell for a profit a bit later on even if they raise a couple of points.

Argument shredded. '

It is not shredded because it doesn't take account of the upside of new trade with China and India with our weaker pound which will help exports. We have got good clever people, they are not all like Team Cameron.

'Yours certainly are invalid to the point of ridiculousness.'

Well, I don't think yours are ridiculous, I just think they are wrong

They did expose the flaws, it's what you call project fear and is happening now as predicted.

Oh what a load of crap.

Is it not glaringly obvious that the team in the wrong were the leavers.

Btw see even the "a lot of money" kiss a fair chunk of it goodbye, it'll be spent on debt repayment, and the rest will be taken by a lower tax take because of far slower growth.

You can't possibly call anyone else's projections ludicrous when your own are so delusional. Oh and Labour won't get anywhere near negotiations, because they are in opposition.

It will be Boris too.

'it's what you call project fear and is happening now as predicted'

Where is Osborne's "Punishment Budget", the one we laughed at and said "is that all you got? That's nothing. In the words fed to Cameron by a spin doctor on streoids "Brits don't quit" right back at ya"

Yes because the Chinese are going to buy our biggest export which is financial services when the pound goes down, you realise these aren't effected by a lower currency.

The chinese and Indian markets certainly aren't going to buy our manufactured products because they can make the same things cheaper.

What are you on? The EU accounts for 44% of our exports, 15% more is the 50 countries that have EU trade deals, 15 more % is the USA. So thats 74%.

The rest of the world make up 26% of our exports, yet you are willing to risk our current situation to gamble on the Chinese and Indian's buying our manufactured exports?

Jesus wept.

Well, I don't think yours are ridiculous, I just think they are wrong.

And you base that on what knowledge?

You see before the vote I called that if we left our debt would be revalued with a lower rating, costing the UK more money.

That there would be turmoil in the markets and that the BOE would have to provide a saftey net.

That the value of the pound would drop.

That foreign firms would hold back on investing because of the uncertainty.

Oh now who has been right so far? Me or you?

This:

"So to every untruth we think we are fed by Cameron, we can find someone saying the opposite."

Yes because all of the independent analysis was Cameron, the overwhelming majority.

Laughable really, your theories have more holes than a sieve.

'Yes because the Chinese are going to buy our biggest export which is financial services when the pound goes down'

They will buy more whisky, more pharamaceuticals, more cultural products, more Rolls Royces and more muppet puppets of Osborne and Cameron

'The chinese and Indian markets certainly aren't going to buy our manufactured products because they can make the same things cheaper. '

We have some niche market high quality products which they will buy e.g. stuff from British Aerospace which will now be cheaper

We have got niche scientific and technological products that will now be more price competitive. Even the fees of our management consultants, lawyers and financial services staff will now be lower.