Who do YOU blame for this?

[Crunchymum]

Do you lay the blame completely with DC for this? Afterall he agreed to the referendum in the first place in order to be re-elected.

Do you blame the people behind the lies of the Brexit campaign? BoJo and Gove et al

Do you blame Corbyn and his lukewarm campaign?

Do you blame the non voters or those who voted and now wish they could change their vote?

Do you blame those who voted leave and still refuse to acknowledge they have been mislead?

Do you blame yourself for not reaching out to more people and making sure they knew how important this vote was and how there was no going back?

Are all of the above to blame to a degree?

the benefits of immigration

Most people can see that immigration organised in the right way has great benefits. However, it is normal for countries to make their own decisions on it, rather than having unlimited migration. Under an Australian-style points system, we could of course welcome all the workers this country needs, plus as many refugees as possible.

Well why would the number one worry of a working class person be immigration when there are so many other things to fight for, such as social justice?

Fawful, it's really been very obvious for about 15 years now that the traditionally unskilled working classes have been adversely affected by uncontrolled EU migration, combined with the welfare trap engineered by Tony & Gordon.

They were ignored repeatedly, patted on the head or called racists & bigots.

Under an Australian system I wouldn't be in this country, and my DP wouldn't have benefited from his few years in Europe. So I'm not saying borders should be open (although...)... But in my opinion we would be heading in a better direction if we started to think harder about how we can open up more rather than less.

Fawful, this piece explains it really well:

http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/

I've read it too quickly as am about to go to work and I'll be back, but as far as I can see, these people would have been hard up and not necessarily having thoughts about immigration until someone came along talking to them about 'taking back control', which appealed to them (as it would to any human being).
I'm taking it as an instance of manipulation. I don't see that they themselves had a direct experience of negative effects of immigration.

And I agree with your link! But I'm calling it manipulation, and I think control could and should be found elsewhere than in a fight about other people trying to find a better life.
'In this context, the slogan ‘take back control’ was a piece of political genius. It worked on every level between the macroeconomic and the psychoanalytic. Think of what it means on an individual level to rediscover control. To be a person without control (for instance to suffer incontinence or a facial tick) is to be the butt of cruel jokes, to be potentially embarrassed in public. It potentially reduces one’s independence. What was so clever about the language of the Leave campaign was that it spoke directly to this feeling of inadequacy and embarrassment, then promised to eradicate it. The promise had nothing to do with economics or policy, but everything to do with the psychological allure of autonomy and self-respect. Farrage’s political strategy was to take seriously communities who’d otherwise been taken for granted for much of the past 50 years.'

But in my opinion we would be heading in a better direction if we started to think harder about how we can open up more rather than less.

I would agree. I'd like to see a fair system of migration for people from all continents, not just one. Global trade instead of just EU trade.

Is there anything particular you think should be changed in an Australian style system Fawful?

Umm, we do have global trade.. It's not strange or wrong that our closest neighbours are our biggest trading partners.

Actually no A4, having looked it up (although only quickly), it does look good.

Absolutely, the Leave campaign tapped into the unrest in a genius way.

Wrt how uncontrolled immigration directly affected the traditionally unskilled working classes:

Labour created the welfare trap - it actually paid more to not work in some instances.
If you were going to be financially worse off by working a shitty low paid job, why would you bother??

Labour decided not to stagger the free moment when the former eastern bloc countries joined the EU; France, Germany et al opted to phase the free movement of these countries in over a 5 yr period.

These new countries had an average wage which was a fraction of our average wage.

If you suddenly had the opportunity to earn over double your wage, even though it's in an unattractive low paid role, why wouldn't you do it?

Thus, everyone was 'happy'.
BUT that course of events was unsustainable - the benefits trap had to be addressed.

This happened then over the next 10 yrs, once the Tories came in they started to tackle it.
They had to 'make work pay' again.

There has also been a long period (began under Labour) whereby trades and vocational work was devalued & underfunded - only graduates count! A degree for all! etc.

Thus, we got to the point whereby our long ignored, unskilled working classes were unable to compete for the unskilled jobs that they would have traditionally filled - because they were competing with skilled, trained workers from the EU.

This has been the reality of 'immigration' for these people.
When they then have swathes of politicians, 'experts' and middle class 'lefties' telling them that 'immigration is good for you', it is no surprise they rail against it.
When they rail against it they are called 'bigot' (Gordon Brown), or 'racist' (MN over the run up to the referendum was full of this btw).

It has been obvious to anyone who actually listened or cared, but nobody did.

I blame John Bercow, for no viable reason.

Asprilla

I see... Yes, I get it.

I blame the voters who had no idea what they were voting for.

It's not strange or wrong that our closest neighbours are our biggest trading partners.

If it holds us back from making our own deals around the world, including developing countries, then I do think it's wrong. If just being neighbours means being good trading partners, we can of course continue this outside the EU. But with the internet, fast global travel etc. there's no particular need just to stick to geographically near neighbours in trade.

Jean-Claude Juncker for failing to respond to David Cameron's request for something substantial to offer the British public in terms of the repatriation of British powers.

Seriously? DC (and I am no fan) negotiated as well as anyone could and the EU were beyond generous to a country that has wanted special treatment from day one. We already have opt-outs on Schengen and the euro. DC additionally negotiated immigration caps and exclusion from any future eurozone bail-outs. We have already received back all the money we supplied for past bail-outs.

Why should Juncker give the British people 'something substantial'? Because we're worth it? The EU are glad to see the back of us. The French press this weekend described us as 'ingrats, ces partenaires qui n'ont jamais eu qu'un pied dans le club et on profite de ses avantages en s'exonerant de nombreuses contraintes' [ingrates, these partners who only ever had one foot in the club, and benefited from all the advantages while exempting themselves from numerous obligations].

So while we're at it, I'll add to my list that I blame the ridiculous, post-imperialist British mentality that somehow imagines we're a 'great' nation entitled to view the rest of the world as a source of human and material resources for cherry-picking and asset-stripping. For historical reasons we have punched above our weight in international politics, but Brexit will change that almost overnight as we become a worldwide laughing stock and an economic disaster zone. The arrogance that imagines that is somehow the fault of anyone outside our own borders is absolutely breathtaking.

I'll take 'all of the above' in the op, and raise you 40 years of socially divisive shit neoliberalist 'inequality is great' economics.

I think what the leavers utterly failed to understand is that we had a stonking deal from the EU in the first place. We got a huge amount out, having already negotiated to limit what we put in.

Of course the EU are going to tell us to sling our hooks now. They're not fucking fools.

So while we're at it, I'll add to my list that I blame the ridiculous, post-imperialist British mentality that somehow imagines we're a 'great' nation entitled to view the rest of the world as a source of human and material resources for cherry-picking and asset-stripping. For historical reasons we have punched above our weight in international politics, but Brexit will change that almost overnight as we become a worldwide laughing stock and an economic disaster zone.

This, this, a thousand times this. We have such a kick in the teeth coming, it's not even funny.

I think what the leavers utterly failed to understand is that we had a stonking deal from the EU in the first place. We got a huge amount out, having already negotiated to limit what we put in.

^^This. I blame Cameron for calling a referendum when he didn't need to, for calling a referendum that left out thousands of British citizens that should have had a vote and didn't, despite his promises and was set up in such a way that a relatively small majority could win and overturn everything. But most of all I blame him for alienating the working classes and destroying what was left of society. Do you remember the Big Society? What a joke! He has done more than any other prime minister (even more than Thatcher I would say) to divide the UK.

rather than having unlimited migration

There isn't unlimited migration within the EU even now, you know.

I blame the electorate. All of us.

Collectively, over decades, we've complacently let appalling inequality develop, and refused to listen to the voices of those who have lost out.

Collectively, we didn't care too much as long as we were alright, and this attitude has been reflected in our politics.

And here we are.

Something Once - well to be fair, I don't think my voting choices or life choices mean that I have let inequality develop personally but I see what you mean.

I'd like to think mine haven't (left-wing, green politics, socially liberal and so on), but our ilk seem not to have been very effective in pushing things in that direction.