Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

Ah yes the SNP recently elected a lovely young woman who talked about feeling like nutting no voters or something similarly lovely!

Rose what a load of nonsense. I have 2 nieces in rural primary schools and know that they have Croatian, Polish, Romanian and Serbian classmates, as well as English. They aren't seasonal residents and they are welcomed.

"Ah yes the SNP recently elected a lovely young woman who talked about feeling like nutting no voters or something similarly lovely!"

Mhairi Black? I was pretty scathing about her when she was elected...

Have you listened to her speeches? She's actually pretty blooming impressive. If I had a hat is eat it.

I heard that from friends but i just can't - she talked about nutting people who dared to disagree with her. Horses for courses etc!

Honestly, she's articulate, passionate and talks on issues really really well.

I posted on here after the general election about her really negatively, not even just about her social media stuff, but just in a dear god, how can she possibly know enough at her age that she'll be an effective MP, I assumed she'd been put up as a practice run because they didn't expect to win that seat.

But everything I've seen of her since has impressed me.

I am absolutely sure there are lovely, lovely people from the EU in many schools. In many areas. I wish, fervently, that we had some too in my school - but we only have 2. That is a fact. Fact - immigration has had a far greater effect, in far greater numbers in England, especially the Midlands, SE and Yorkshire.

I wish we had more in my remote corner - I might not have had to wave goodbye to a much loved colleague who was moved to another school. But, we don't. Scotland needs more people, hence one reason for the Remain vote.

I have never questioned that there are migrants - seasonal only in my area (hence few children) but not enough to upset the secret UKippers.

Pm me if you want the exact area. I am not telling lies, merely trying to explain in response to the OP.

'she talked about nutting people who dared to disagree with her'

Munch, she was joking, she didn't mean it.

Honestly, she's articulate, passionate and talks on issues really really well

I assume you are talking about the odious Mhairi Black?

Sorry I think all this we're so fluffy and warm and welcoming to immigrants is wishful thinking. Scotland has not been put to the test the way parts of England has.

Scotland has aleads been ruled by Westminster. I grew up in an era when we had a Tory Govt not elected by the Scottish people. It wasn't that we had more MPS from another party. They were basically a non existent party yet still they governed us.
Since 97 election & then devolution we started to get more say. And it's been such a positive thing
Scotland was extremely depriver in certain areas thanks to the Tories. The EUS made a massive difference. So much money has came in
People seem to forgot that when we joined the EEC or whatever it was called at the time, we were the poor man of the club. We'be done do well out of it. Yes the last few years have been tougH & we have managed better than others. But up until 2008 things were rosy.

Scotland has been effected by Immigration. Not perhaps as much as other areas, but it is different now.
When I went to school (just outside Glasgow) you had 1 or 2 children in a year not White British / Irish. I don't live there now so don't know what it's like now but I see a difference when I go & visit.

I'm not going to say people are happy with it. I imagine they have similar concerns to others.

But I think we're also patriotic in a healthier way that England (sorry if this offends). Although we do often focus too much antogonism to England.

Perhaps we are more tolerant. But I can't say I've found where I live in England intolerant.

I was actually shocked that my city in middle England voted to leave.

I really don't know but I think the thought of the Tories unleashed is terrifying to us as we'be seen what that does & we never want to go their again.

But can I say I'm impressed wit Ruth Davidson the Tory leader in Scotland.

What I don't understand is why Scotland would want to be independent from the UK but wants to be part of EU. Do they really think that the EU would be more in the interest of Scotland? And with oil price being what it is, it would make no sense? Or would that be another protest vote against Westminster? Does Scotland not know that oil rich countries are currently being crippled by the oil price?

A lot of the indyref had some yes people making racist and hateful slurs against the English. Now some of these people are accusing all leave voters of being racist. The indyref was a horrible experience if you weren't voting yes. SNP wanted everyone to vote remain this time so told us if leave won they would go for another indyref. So decisions made in Scotland could have reflected that.

because scotland does not have a class based society where the upperclasses keep the lower classes down. Both Labour and Torries are made out of upper classes.

Education is not equal for all here. And that's where it starts from.

Scotland being 'progressive' - have a look at the Named Person legislation!

Scotland being 'cohesive' - hardly - remember the last IndyRef, the ripple of which are still felt in my village at least.

Roseformeplease I am also in a rural part of Scotland and I can also confirm what you have said about your area.

And yes, in Scotland we blame Westminster, not the EU.

because scotland does not have a class based society where the upperclasses keep the lower classes down

Oh please. Setting the Marxist rhetoric aside do you really think there is no class system here? 25% of children in Edinburgh go to private school.

Surely you would be exchanging one set of perceived as being unresponsive elite with another set of EU unresposnive elite.

I'm not seeing how being part of EU would be better than being part of UK. In fact, as I said, with the oil price being what it is, independence makes no sense (to me).

"Scotland has not been put to the test the way parts of England has."

Yes, we were disagreeing about why that is though, not that people in Scotland are somehow just nicer.

"What I don't understand is why Scotland would want to be independent from the UK but wants to be part of EU."

They're completely different, we're not an equal member in the UK and there's no fair way to make us equal either.

"The indyref was a horrible experience if you weren't voting yes."

It was a pretty horrible experience if you were voting yes round here, but I've been disbelieved on here about that because clearly there needs to be a good side and a bad side and the only allowable discourse is that yes voters were nasty bigots and no voters were sane and sensible. You're not supposed to point out that both sides had nasty bigots and that people vote a certain way on things for all sorts of reasons.

and education is not equal for all in Scotland either!

the 'attainment gap' is ever widening, under 10 years of SNP education policy.

Edinburgh for example has over 25% of it's children in private education.

The % of young people from poor backgrounds in college and futher/higher education is dropping and dropping.

Absolutely agree sansa, just looks like a transition from bad to worse to me.

I mean, I find the rhetoric of Nicola based around the hatred of the ENglish and blaming of Westminister, with the single goal of breaking up the UK.

Why do the Scottish people buy this?

Just want to add that she is a good politician I grant you that.

The IndyRef brought out some vile racism and intolerance which the SNP did nothing to condemn.

Sectarianism is still alive and well in Scotland. Deeply embedded in the Faculty of Advocates (Donald Findlay, anyone?) too. So, the country's top legal advocates embroiled in religious and racist bigotry.

Please lets not go down the route of a Scottish utopia vs an English racist hell because it really isn't like that.

Oh I agree both sides in the indyref did have nasty bigots, I don't doubt that in the slightest. But what I don't get at the moment is why it is deemed acceptable for some people to say it is ok to be anti-English (racist to me) in one referendum then be accusing others of racism for voting leave in another? I know people have voted through fear of another indyref while others have voted hoping for it. The question was why did Scotland vote so different to the rest of the UK (ex NI) and to me that is probably the main reason. Can't say it's because all Scots are friendlier to foreigners and the English aren't because that's just generalised nonsense!

But that's what's shown to be happening though. That's why more people say they would now vote for independence now that before.

Is this hate all round triumphing over intelligence/education/common sense?

I wonder what the stats are if you looked at contributions per capita from Scotland to the EU and money received from the EU for Scotland.

"But what I don't get at the moment is why it is deemed acceptable for some people to say it is ok to be anti-English (racist to me) in one referendum then be accusing others of racism for voting leave in another?"

Don't know, I don't think either is acceptable, so...

As I said really early on in the thread, I think the independence referendum had a huge effect, not in the way you mean, but huge just the same.

I'm still going, they voted for no plan? WTF? How? How could that many people vote for nothing? I suspect that's a hangover from poring over the post independence plans.