Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

DailyMailEthicalFail
As the majority of English people are the same race as the majority of Scottish people it isn't racism. It is anti-English sentiment.

So I call it anti-English sentiment.

A lot of people would argue that not only do you have to be of a different race, the racism has to be by those whose race confers privilege. So in the UK only white people can be racist under some definitions.

Others would argue there is only one race - the human race.

Anti-English sentiment is wrong but it is not racism. It is also relatively meaningless if you define Scottishness and Englishness by birth place as there is barely anyone in Scotland who does not have a relatively recent English ancestor. (Pretty much all eligible to play for either country if we were good enough).

Scottish independence is NOT about ethnically Scottush people against ethnically English people, it isn't even about people born in Scotland versus those who are not. It is about the people who live in Scotland and who pay tax in Scotland regardless of where they were born and their right to decide what happens in the country where they live.

Scottish independence is NOT about ethnically Scottush people against ethnically English people, it isn't even about people born in Scotland versus those who are not. It is about the people who live in Scotland and who pay tax in Scotland regardless of where they were born and their right to decide what happens in the country where they live.

It sure didn't feel like that in September 2104, SmallLegs

Or even September 2014.

But Latin the people who voted were the people who live here. They are not all Scots.

If you got the impression that it was all about Scots v English then you got a totally different impression to me and I am sorry if there were idiots who were cunty to you. Sadly you do get idiots everywhere. But as we say, it wisnae me.

All my English friends voted and almost all of them voted Yes.
Not one person I spoke to cited dislike if the English as a reason for Yes. and I heard plenty of anti-Scottish rhetoric on MN and on tv dislike of English would be a ridiculous reason to want to leave the Union. Most people I know who voted Yes voted that way because they think Scotland as a nation can manage fine and they really are pretty indifferent to England either way but not keen on WM and Tory gvmnts.

We would like Scottish laws for Scottish people. We live here after all

What are "Scottish people?" I live in Scotland.

Scottish people are anyone who lives in Scotland.

Just like there's been a rise in racist incidents as the brexit vote has validated those views I bet there will be a rise in English people being told to "go home" in the event of independence.

Anyone notice the Natonal supporting Iceland at the football, a nice example of casual everyday anti Englishness?

Better to refer to them as 'the people in Scotland' then. Or just Scottish laws in Scotland.

(There are lots of Scottish people who don't live in Scotland and many many people who are not Scottish who do).

Once you start saying you want England for the English, or Britain First, or lets make Britain Great again (NI isn't in Great Britain) or Scottish laws for Scottish people it all sounds at the very least a bit exclusive.

Oh FFS do not bring the football bleating in please. People who are not English and/or who don't follow the English football team are not obliged to support them.

Football is all about rivalry.

Does supporting Man U make you anti-Liverpudlian?

The main team I dislike and against whom I would support any other team comes from the same place I do. I guess that means I am anti-myselfist.

Football has fuck all to do with anything other than football. if only people in a certain Scottish city would learn that

And tbf it isn't just the Scots who support anyone but England it is pretty much everyone unless England happen to be playing the team they really, really dislike. much the same as some English football fans support almost any team playing Germany.

There are probably some Faroese or whoever dislikes Iceland whales? supporting England.

If anything a decent bit of rivalry gives players something to play up to.

Get the fuck over it. There are enough people in England, supporting England and going on and on and on about England on the TV starions that cover more than just England that surely there is no need to try to bully other home nations into having to support them too.

Really what difference does it make? Is your life actually affected by it?

First world problem boo hoo the Scots don't like our weally weally important football team. Nasty mean Scottish people. lets give Scotland the poll tax

If however, I heard anyone telling English people to go home, or anyone else for that matter I'd be having words.

Certainly closing the border and limiting immigration were not central planks of the Yes campaign. Quite the opposite. I didn't see any posters with long queues of people drinking warm beer and playing cricket heading for Scotland. (It would have been an orderly queue, mind)

Any mention of passports and borders etc. Came from the other side and were quickly dispelled. Why would anyone have to go home when they already are home? Home is where you live. The people of Scotland are the people who live here. That is why they get a vote. Unlike the EU referendum where being from the UK was more important than being in the UK.

Political leadership on immigration has been proactive and positive snd over time it's made a difference you the debate at all to social levels. Also still more of an idea of what kind of society and values we want. England seems yo just want to have a giant poop over everything.

I'm Scottish smalllegs, and the ABE stuff is not just rivalry. It's getting to be a fucking embarrassment.

My DH is English and living up here has been on the receiving end of being told to "go home" and feels unsafe going to watch the football and being seen to be supporting England. So forgive me if I don't see it as friendly rivalry because it isn't and everyone knows that.

Scottish people are anyone who lives in Scotland

Really? So I'm English if I live in England or French if I move to France.


And Sturgeon can shove her "oh you can have a Scottish passport" I don't want a Scottish passport.

I didn't say football rivalry was friendly. I said it is not relevent to the Independence debate.

I am just as likely to get grief for supporting the 'wrong team' if I go to the wrong place.

"The Scots don't support England at football" is boring. And the more it is moaned about the more it irritates. It adds fuel to the fire because no one likes being told what they ought to.

It comes up briefly, every few years when England make it to a competition. It is not every single day - unlike real life. If not supporting the another nations football team were the worst thing any of us could be accused of then the world would be a happy place.

I wouldn't mind a Scottish passport, as I said happy to adopt wearing entirely tweed and chanting folk songs - teach my dds Gaelic if you like but don't wreck the economy for some sense of independence! Scotland has tax raising powers, fund better services, fine but why reject the insurance policy of UK membership? poor people in Scotland will be the losers.

I can't believe you are actually defending anti English xenophobia?!? That is what you are doing. You are a fucking apologist for xenophobia. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I have an intense pride brewing inside me for being Scottish as fuck.

I'm on half a bottle of wine so I can't be political, but what I can say is we are fucking awesome.

SCOTLAND!

we bloody are ned!

No I am not trixy I am saying football is a game not real life. Supporting Iceland is not xenophobia nor is it racism. And saying it is is really offensive to people who suffer genuine racism. Talk about trivialising something inportant.

I have already said I would be appalled at anyone telling anyone else to go home.

But I am also bored of being told that the Scots hate the English over a stupid football game every two or three years. (And I do watch football. But tbh I don't give a toss how England get on. But no doubt I'll be hearing all about it anyway).

I can't watch my local team in my local pub. So what? It might be nice if the world weren't like that but there are far, far, far more important things to worry about.

Catch yerself on.

true, smalllegs, its only a game, although dh is really enjoying the one on just now...

Oh it is most definitely real life when folk are getting threatened because of their nationality. Listen to yourself ffs!!!!

As for your tweedery munch

1. a tory gvmt Scotland did not vote for
2. trident Scotland don't want
3. the EU Scotland voted to stay in.

There's 3 reasons to reject the insurance.

I am realistic. This is a wee counrty. But it isn't about the past. It is about being a modern, forward thinking, outward looking, positive country that is more concerned with making this country a wee bit better at sone point in the future than it is now not harking back to a past that never existed and keeping the land in good stewardship rather than wasting money interfering in other countries and worrying about world standing. (Interfering would be fine if we (the UK) were good at it but we are shite at it and then turn our back when the shit we created hits the fan)

My opinion of Scottish people goes down every day. I need to move.

trixy the two things are not the same!!
Where did I say it was ok to threaten someone because of their nationality?

Where did I say I even care about anyone's nationality?

I have said repeatedly being anti-English is not what Independence is about. I have also said repeatedly I abhor anyone telling anyone to go home.

What I said is who people support at football is no one's business but their own.
If some of the people who support ABE are threatening people because of their nationality then the problem is that those people are arseholes and they should be reported. It is, as I am sure you know, a crime. Not supporting England is, as I am sure you know, not a crime.

I was in a mixed crowd for a recent England international and yes there were an unexpectedly large number of Russians on the scene but none of them threatened anyone and none of the England fans really minded.

Saying I am xenophobic just because I am bored of being called a racist for not giving a fuck about England's national team surely means your dh is racist for not supporting Germany. After all the media would have us believe that ABG applies to everyone in England - or might that be an exaggeration, perhaps, do you think?. Or could it in fact be that some people are quite happy to see Germany (a rival and better team much as England is to Scotland) lose and some of those people are anti-German and lots of people don't give a monkies because in the grand scheme of real actual important stuff its only football.

but at least in England you don't have to listen to German commentators going on and on and on about it