To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

So... if new leader is in around 2nd September, that gives the markets a glimpse of a timetable for initial Brexit stages.

So... if new leader is in around 2nd September, that gives the markets a glimpse of a timetable for initial Brexit stages.

Only if the new leader triggers Article 50. Or at least announces on what date he/she will trigger it.

Because the EU doesn't seem inclined to agree to the "informal" negotiations Bozo favours, so I don't think there is a timetable until then. Unless I'm wrong, or I'm currently right but the EU changes its mind.

The best thing BOZO can do is go to Dover and fall off a cliff.

I'm not convinced he's up to the task of negotiating our exit. God help us if he's foolhardy enough to stand for PM, win and invoque article 50. He's so arrogant. No one voted for him. How could he justify taking us out?!

If the racist element of the Brexiteers don't pipe down with their racist diatribe, they're potentially going to cost us in negotiations as well.

The only country that will really have Britain's back in upcoming negotiations will be Ireland, which does a significant amount of business with Britain. Britain has just pissed in Germany's bath and I expect negotiations will reflect a certain amount of resentment about that.

Nevertheless, because the EU votes with its head, it will try to walk a fine line between making an example of Britain to wannabe exiters and ensuring that EU fortunes don't take too much of a hit.

In the long term though, the EU stands a better chance of emerging from this in good shape than Britain.

Noting that Turkey's Erdogan has in the wake of the vote sent a personal apology to Russia for the downing of the Russian jet and rescue helicopter a few months ago on the Turkey-Syria border, and that Russia immediately imposed sanctions. The Turks tend to keep a finger to the wind.

I would not be surprised to see exploration of closer ties between Russia and the EU in the aftermath of this vote. Maybe not today or next week, but in the next couple of years. Meanwhile boxes of Turkish melons will once again find their way to Tomsk.

I know the thread has moved on a fair bit from the OP, but yet again the point is driven home: www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/brussels-rejects-boris-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access

The EU does have to agree to it, but it's in Germany's financial interests. It's also clearly the much better option for Britain economically, and stands more chance of calming the markets than anything else Boris might say at this point. I think he's said the only thing he could, really.

Germans aren't idiots. Making concessions to someone who can't be even trusted to act upon their own decision? Why? Till another strange pact of a little semi-fascist and a posh toff decide it's time to steer shit again?
Britain have never been happy with the EU because their insular xenophobia only allowed teaming up with nations which would recognise their natural superiority. So it's time to leave, please don't prolong it, make it happen fast.

Well, there was one Article 50 activated now for the Euro.mThank you, English football team, at least you can do it.

Well, that will be the issue for Germany clandestino, whether to prioritise their economic interests in exporting to Britain, or other concerns. But that doesn't refute the point I made, which is that Johnson is quite right to talk up the possibility of EEA membership. Not only because that's in Britain's interests, but because he should be making some attempt to calm the markets.

Not only because that's in Britain's interests, but because he should be making some attempt to calm the markets.

As the article linked below shows, the Germans are not keen. The British cannot be trusted.

Again, this doesn't refute the point I was making. If you check my posting history, you'll see I've laid into Boris plenty over the past couple of days, but on this particular course of action I don't see how he can be faulted. What else could he do at the moment, really?

Again, this doesn't refute the point I was making. If you check my posting history, you'll see I've laid into Boris plenty over the past couple of days, but on this particular course of action I don't see how he can be faulted. What else could he do at the moment, really?

He can do fuck all because nobody trusts him. Not even Osbourne as a legitimate representative of Britain managed to do that so why should Boris? And Germans know it very well and are fed up. If you read articles written by their economists, most of then are so over Britain. Do you think they don't they any contingency plan?

Exactly, there's nothing else Boris could do at the moment other than what he has done. I'm not sure why you're addressing the rest to me though- what in my posts has given you the impression I think Germany are going to want to do us any favours?

Maybe we should sum up for MN Brexiters what their vote has won them:

Dear Brexiteers

You have apparently voted to:

• keep paying the EU
• continue to accept all EU regulations on goods we sell them
• accept free movement of people; because what business wants, business gets - especially when your chief negotiator is a neoliberal Tory wingnut

You have also voted to lose:

• EU grants to deprived regions and
• any say in what regulations will be imposed and
• the UK veto on policy and
• its MEPs at the European Parliament and
• previous concessions that kept the City of London as the leading European financial centre and
• EU legislation that protected employment rights such as not having to work over 48 hours, health & safety at work, also the right to treatment by a doctor who has not been more than 48 hrs on call, the environment .....

I hope you think this was worth trashing the economy & extending austerity for the next few years

Yours faithfully,
A Remainer

The EU does have to agree to it, but it's in Germany's financial interests.

No, it's not. You don't make deals with countries which have no plan beyond a speculation that the world will kneel down and give them a blow job in return for their favours.

So basically, you agree with me that Germany will be balancing financial interests wrt her exports with the UK alongside various other competing interests that might mitigate against an EEA type deal? Good, glad we've got that one sorted.

Seriously, go and have this argument with some Leave voters. Not with someone who thinks Brexit would be economic suicide and we clearly don't have a strong hand to play.

The view from Der Spiegel :
"... the EU cannot have an interest in making the withdrawal that easy for Britain. Otherwise it would only heighten the risk that other countries would soon follow the Brits out the door
... if Brexit leads to the threat of a Frexit or an Auxit, the European Union would be finished, as would the euro"

and if the UK leaves the single market:

"BMW, to name just one example, will have to decide whether it still makes sense to supply the European continent with Minis built at its plant in Oxford, when a 10-percent duty is charged to import them into the EU. The other option, of course, would be simply to expand its production at a Mini factory in the Netherlands."

The UK is in a VERY weak negotiating position

Senior Police Chiefs have discussed how to deal with the spike in hate crimes following the referendum

Guardian reports: Senior figures in the Scottish Labour party are investigating proposals for Scotland and NI to have separate federated membership of the EU

Why was the US so keen to see Britain remain in the EU? Because Britain was a reliable stooge reliably pushing America's line on Russia and Ukraine. The US is horrified by the loss of 'our man in Brussels' and feels really let down by Britain and by the Tories.

The decision to get the EU involved in America's eastern European adventure in Ukraine is one that Germany is probably regretting very deeply right now. I foresee a certain amount of back pedalling on sanctions against Russia. Overall, I suspect the EU's relationship with Russia will undergo a rethink. Though Russia has no reason to trust the EU, easing of sanctions would probably be welcome, and Germany and the Netherlands and even France would stand to gain much from trade.

The last thing Germany and the EU need right now is more right wing nativists (such as the political parties of Ukraine) without much of a clue about how to function in institutions created by Christian Democrats and Social Democrats and whose only kindred spirits would be parties like Marine Le Pen's.

There is a limit to what Germany is prepared to sacrifice for US ambitions wrt Russia. Russia as a trading partner of the EU might be a far more palatable prospect to Germany than the EU used as a tool of American hawks. I foresee a significant easing off of EU involvement in the US-led pushing against Russia, and future NATO exercises in Poland and the Baltic will be less frequent. I think German taxpayers and voters are going to dig in their heels and ask for a close examination of the necessity for Ukrainian membership of the EU, and will ask whose interests it would serve.

Germany is going to have to do a public about turn that will affect her credibility, and won't thank Britain for forcing this on her.

The way I see it this vote is all about immigration and freedom of movement, everybody knows that. Why is the EU particularly Germany, so wedded to this policy? I can see why it would benefit the poorer nations but not so much Germany. Why did it have to be EU policy rather than just leave it up to individual states to decide if they wanted to sign up to this or not.

And yes, I do know exit is unlikely to make any difference to this.

I am furious because I pointed this out so many times and got poo pood by leavers.

I just can't believe ANYONE fell for Boris's line that the UK would be in a strong negotiating position - it was clear as day that was rubbish!

Same kitty . I pointed this out till I was blue in the face.

Oh dear rebecca. You should have listened harder. Didn't you hear Frances o Grady challenge boris Johnson on the big TV debate - 'you're a con trick' said she ' Leave have never committed to bring down immigration. There is no plan to bring down immigration'.

You should have listened up.

A more serious point is that I heard yesterday that there were 9 million postal votes, and that these would have been submitted already - before any of the TV debates or any of the campaigning in the week running up to the referendum - so if you were listening out but you'd already submitted your postal vote, you were a bit fucked basically.

It would a) be petty and b) unfortunately not change anything now, but I want this T shirt. Everything predicted in the immediate aftermath has happened. The rest will, too: the unemployment, the house price tumble, Europe coping just fine, food price increases...