To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

Perhaps that was what Gove, Johnson etc. were after?

It's certainly what Thatcher was after (philosophically: free trade with no political union), and possibly many Leave voters.

(Boris was only an opportunist after the PM-ship.)

Unfortunately, political union is what other EU members were after, and it's more important to them than the UK's budget contributions. Those countries will not be amenable to giving the UK what amounts to a free pass, after it has so threatened the stability and future of that political project.

BengalCatMum

I agree

Do you seriously mean you've only just realised this! OMG!

Bengalcat - what do you even mean by this?

We will have to kindly decline EU's offer and businesses could trade via Estonia company, if you are so adamant your business must be in EU; which you can set up and administer your business from anywhere in the world. While the UK strengthens its trade elsewhere and leaves EU too it.

Goodness me, BengalCat, if only all those experts in Norway and Switzerland had googled like you did last night and gone the Estonian company route, they could have saved themselves all those billions they pay for free trade and the need to allow freedom of movement. If only Hannan had done that before embarrassing himself.

Or maybe they all knew that was a load of utter bollocks.

Cate, since you agree with this, perhaps you could explain why you and BengalCat are right and everyone else is wrong?

Redtooth - it's us - our own customs officers- that does the checking at the border in France not the French so they can't just let anyone in unchecked.
Up thread there was talk about it being really difficult to try and negotiate deals with other countries and the length of time it took for the EU to negotiate with Canada was mentioned. Will we wouldn't need to take anything as long to negotiate with a country as we are one country with one set of interests and guidelines and not 28 countries like the EU at the moment.
I realise negotiating with the EU won't be that easy but we do have some bargaining power. Would we still not have our veto and have voting rights within the EU. Also we don't 'need' a trade deal we can still trade without one. Someone up tread seemed to think that we would be fucked and that all trade would stop (one of the remain untruths!). Not true at all, what would happen would be that we would pay a tariff on goods of about 2.5%. I don't expect the German's would be too keen to have to add this to the price of their cars where as I don't mind paying a few more pence on a bag of apples or a bottle of wine.

"I realise negotiating with the EU won't be that easy but we do have some bargaining power. Would we still not have our veto and have voting rights within the EU. "

!!

Read Article 50.

When the leaving nation is negotiating terms with the EU, it is not on both sides of the table, it can only represent itself and not vote on what the rEU says.

The ignorance and stupidity.... words fail me. Are you seriously suggesting that you thought we would be able to veto any agreement on our own leaving terms?? Seriously? Words fail me. I'm out.

Or rather I wasn't "out". But now I will be out due to the intelligent exercise of their democratic rights made by others. Cheers!

Why would the French allow us to keep police officers & customs officials in their country ?
I gather Brexit means they want the border moved from Calais to Dover, i.e. all British officials perform any checks on British soil only.

Fucking hell, the stupidy.

cate
No I won't be able to choose what I would like to eat. Do you realise how deeply the last recession hurt us? Do you realise how many people, including me, are still reeling at the loss of all the things that we did have or could have but didn't because of that recession?
I did NOT say there won't be negotiations. Again, you don't look like you can or are getting it. What me and everyone else is trying to say here is there will be negotiations but NOT on our terms. NOT in our favour.

Did Brexiters really imagine we retained our EU veto wrt negotiations to leave them ? < weeps >

Read point 4 in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty :

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

it's us - our own customs officers- that does the checking at the border in France not the French so they can't just let anyone in unchecked.

Only if the French allow us to keep customs officers there and provide them with the facilities to work.

Also we don't 'need' a trade deal we can still trade without one. Someone up tread seemed to think that we would be fucked and that all trade would stop (one of the remain untruths!). Not true at all, what would happen would be that we would pay a tariff on goods of about 2.5%. I don't expect the German's would be too keen to have to add this to the price of their cars where as I don't mind paying a few more pence on a bag of apples or a bottle of wine.

And people wonder why some people say Leave voters are thick. Corcory, have you been reading Ukip propaganda? You do realise that is largely fictional, don't you?

You pack your bags and leave. You don't get to choose the terms. They will dictate it and you will have to take it or leave it.

In the words of Zack de la Rocha...

"How long? NOT LONG! 'Cause what you reap, is what you sow!"

Why on earth would France let us put our customs officials in their territory? They are totally entitled to say "back to Dover" tomorrow and probably will. We have no right to place our officers there.

In rl, I've been saying that Leave voters considered the available data and came to a different conclusion to us; that we should respect this.

I may have seriously flattered both their collection of "data" and their consequent thought processes - such as they were.

You undoubtedly have, BCF. Not in every single case, but in the overwhelming majority.

The only way Brexiteers were ever going to understand the reality, was to see it actually panning out. Being told it, or having to read it, meant nothing.

And I still cannot fathom how the working classes ever thought the far right had their best interests at heart.

And I still cannot fathom how the working classes ever thought the far right had their best interests at heart.

Because when you feel scared and powerless, you'll believe a pretty lie blaming the EU and immigrants for everything.

And I still cannot fathom how the working classes ever thought the far right had their best interests at heart.

^ this

Valentine
cate
No I won't be able to choose what I would like to eat. Do you realise how deeply the last recession hurt us? Do you realise how many people, including me, are still reeling at the loss of all the things that we did have or could have but didn't because of that recession?
I did NOT say there won't be negotiations. Again, you don't look like you can or are getting it. What me and everyone else is trying to say here is there will be negotiations but NOT on our terms. NOT in our favour.

Please show me where I have said that the negotiations following Article 50 will be on our terms and in our favour? YOU don't look like you can or are getting it!

Judy
I was looking forward to the end of referendum so everyone could come together again. So this post-result hissy fit is way more disappointing to me than if 'Remain' had won. I know it was a shock for the retainers, because most leavers gave up sharing their views due to the racist rhetoric ect.
We do not know how the negotiations will go, but if we do have uncontrolled immigration and have to implement EU laws then that missed the point of the whole leave campaign

^This is what I was agreeing with.......for the purpose of clarity.

But cate, don't you see that it is leavers who missed the point - that if they voted leave in order to be free of EU regulation and have fully controlled immigration, they were deceiving themselves?

Why on earth would France let us put our customs officials in their territory? They are totally entitled to say "back to Dover" tomorrow and probably will. We have no right to place our officers there.

Talking to French friends online they say it won't happen straight away, because the major political parties will probably all include it as a people pleasing promise during their elections next year. (Though if they'll all use it, I wonder why the reigning party wouldn't do it before the election to curry favour!) But it looks very likely to happen.

I just hope we don't end up with refugees living in a Dover 'jungle' because in this current climate I don't think they'd be safe.