To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

bigchoc
I am loosing my it I admit but you need to very carefully read your post again. The argument you have just given contains so many "ifs" that even a firm Remainer won't get it easily let alone the Leave voters who would again be lost. I have nothing against your degree or your IQ, but your argument is just too complex. Why do a whole general election when an advisory referendum will suffice? You want more drama and turmoil and loads more potential hours to pick through lies of the same politicians who lied to you yet again for this referendum??
Not to mention a very very angry EU on top of that. Honestly, I really hope you see what's wrong with a referendum versus general election argument.

You know what I am looking forward to, it is getting free from the shackles of the EU and taking control over the destiny of the UK, whether that includes Scotland and possibly even London, or not.

So we'll basically be New Zealand then. FFS (don't get me wrong, I live NZ but we buggered them when we joined the EU & they lost their biggest market overnight - oh wait...)

Peregrina - it was a bit tongue in cheek - the empire was terrible for many people & GB did terrible things, but we had clout then - it seems many haven't noticed things have changed.

Valentine 2 You are right indeed. There is even unease in the ranks as the founding 6; Reynders (Belgium), Steinmeier (Germany), Gentiloni (Italy), Asselborn (Luxembourg), Ayrault (France) and Koenders (Netherlands) met this morning to discuss Brexit. It seems the other member states didn't like being excluded from the discussions.........thats democracy for you!

Cate
That's the way the money goes..the sooner you get it the better.

Callar to be fair it didn't take that much reflection or searching to find out leave was a load of hot air. About 5 minutes with Google?

Presumably if a majority of MPs were for Remain then they could vote any legislation down?

There were. In theory I think they could.
In practice there would be something of a constitutional crisis and probably riots

There is also the House of Lords.

Of course in practice ^ see above

Then there's the Queen.

Of course in practice ^ see above

The only way you can stop Article 50, is if you hang the public out to dry for long enough to kill riots to a minimum and have everyone begging not to.

This is technically termed
'Fucking yourself in the arse on a national scale'

This is ok, as we've already
'Cut of our nose to spite our face on a national scale'

At this point, you might want to keep your head down as there might be riots.

Where the fuck is, where the fuck is, where the fuck is everyone one....

This will be followed or accompanied by
'Bending over and being spanked by the rest of the EU on a national scale, whilst we grimace and bare it'

For example: watch Sangette, suddenly end up mysteriously in Folkestone.

Which will probably result in... errrr.... riots.

Of course, we could just except Brexit lying down, which would led to us all getting so screwed over there would be

Oh. Riots.

Can anyone see any way out of this mess without a scenario, that doesn't carry the real risk of rioting?

How fascinating. OP, are you for real?

CurlieWurlie, your post about supposedly being unable to deport someone from the EU who has not started work within 6 months is utter nonsense. There is no way that the Human Rights Act would be engaged in that situation unless those concerned could demonstrate that they were in danger on returning to the EU country from which they came - and they won't.

So, did you vote Leave on the basis of beliefs like this? If so, you had better join OP and the thousands of bemused Brexiters who are suddenly realising that they had no idea what they were voting for or why.

The referendum results and the defection of labour voters in the north and wales to UKIP suggests that people no longer trust politicians. In a quick general election I think a lot of people would vote UKIP especially if it seemed that the government was not honouring the results of the referendum.

There are several legal discussions (online, go google) on ways we could avoid invoking chapter 50 with verified assent of public. I don't think any will happen, but can hope.

I never understood why the referendum was only two choices .
Surely in terms of ensuring the electorate knew what their choices were, it would have been better to pick from 4 options?
Leave
Remain
Leave if we can pursue EFTA membership
Remain but allow us to have straight bananas

Or maybe I'm over thinking it?

No-one, including myself has said that we will have an easy negotiation with the EU regarding our exit. My wording was carefully chosen to state that we will enter into negotiations, renegotiations, bargaining and compromise, because in the end, that is all we can do. We may be on the back foot but this is what the electorate decided.

With the best will in the world I doubt the petition will affect the referendum outcome. With this in mind the only thing to do is forge on.

lljkk do you think you would pm me the link? Me and a couple of other lawyers have been looking at Article 50 and associated Articles in depth and we think there may be a real snag to leaving which hasn't been spotted. Need to throw it out to many more lawyers to mull over!

Try this article, Pebbles.

For example: watch Sangette, suddenly end up mysteriously in Folkestone.

How would that happen? Would the French or UK officials stop checking the lorries/trains on the French side? Would we end up seeing little rubber boats trying to cross the channel with the French not trying to stop them?

What will Johnson, Farage, Gove etc. etc. do then?

cate
So while you are at your difficult negotiations, hat should I eat? Grass? That's one thing we manufacture a lot of for sure. You still have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

... and ultimately, there is nothing to stop MPs from voting for a (verification) 2nd referendum, too. If Remain won with a majority 55+% or Leave won again (at all), that would be definitive enough, I guess. Each referndum costs a bomb & bores us all to tears, though.

Even I feel a bit :( about still voting Remain if we don't still get the concessions that Cameron got back in February. They were important & I am fuzzy if we could still have them.

Leave if we can pursue EFTA membership

Personally, I suspect that this is the more likely outcome and after all we were in EFTA before we joined the Common Market. For the rest of the EU it's a win win situation - they get our dues, they get movement of labour, they don't have to bother with any Eurosceptic whinging from the UK.

Not too bad a deal for bad UK employers either - in fact a good one for them - ability to bring in Eastern Europeans to work at exploitative rates but fewer rights for the workers. Perhaps that was what Gove, Johnson etc. were after?

How can we expect to hold onto terms negotiated as part of the EU once we have invoked Article 50 to leave?? just think about it for a short while - it's like suggesting that the terms you negotiated at your annual job review would still be on the table after you had decided to hand in your notice!

Only problem is Cate they've now noticed there's a shortage of people with the skils to do the negotiating.

Good analogy giddy glad some people get it!!!

And yes, I think it is depressingly likely that we will end up with an arrangement like that peregrina

Those areas that voted leave are likely to be the ones that suffer worst as well 😟

Peregrina, there have been lots of rumbling from the pissed off Mayor of Calais in the last 24 hours about 'taking back our border'.

The French government have, so far, said its part of our bilateral agreements with France to have the border there, so it won't be changing.

The thing is, it depends on how pissy and messy the divorce gets and whether they want us to get the fuck on with invoking the big red EU Exit button as to how long that lasts.

Or whether the Mayor of Calais or someone else just decides to go FUCK THAT for 24 hours or so, just to prove a point and just lets people through unchecked.

Bare in mind here, that the borders across Europe were just opened after pressure built up, to allow in Syrian migrants, so its really not beyond the realms of possibility.

Plus all the skills in the world won't enable you to negotiate a good deal when you are by far the weakest party at the table

Valentine2 You can eat what you want but in the end there WILL be negotiations once Article 50 is invoke. This is one FACT that leave and remain can agree on.