Remainers have become undemocratic, desperate & embarrassing

[BritBrit]

With a petition being launched by remainers for a 2nd EU referendum & getting 1.5 million signatures already is this not a sign remainers have a total lack of respect for UK democracy and are getting desperate. Leave won on a high turnout, should remainers just accept the democratic will of British voters & work for the best Brexit possible?

Ok, enthusiasm fair play, but genuinely, why should another referendum not be called? Upthread I said I'd not signed the petition, that is still the case. I don't think there is much chance of a revote (although I'd be willing to bet Johnson would quietly welcome it).

My point is that the ref is not legally binding - this is not like an election. It is advisory only, we can all agree both sides acquitted themselves pretty poorly, some Leave voters are now even saying they feel they were lied to. Where is the issue with doing it over again? If Leave is genuinely the right thing for the country, then there is nothing to worry about.

No can argue that the Leave side wouldn't be doing the same if they'd lost - Farage was clear that he would consider 48/52 as 'unfinished business' and the petition was started by a Leave voter (now 'hijacked', in his words, by Remain, well how's that for democracy, eh?) The Scots who were previously queasy about indyref2 now welcome the idea. Things change, seismic shifts can't be decided in the blink of an eye.

That is democracy - nothing to do with doing it again and again until you get the right answer. We should never have had the damn thing in the first place, of course, but now we're down that road I see no issue with ensuring we have really got it right.

lottie
Everyone in the UK (pretty much) will be desperate if Brexit goes ahead. Whichever way you voted. There are no winners. Someone needs to stop this madness.
and you know this - how? do you have the 'ear of everybody'
the thing is - the remain vote thought they had it in the bag because the London bubble intelligentsia (allegedly), the rich and the powerful and of course the BBC manipulated and initiated project fear, followed by project shame/guilt (cast your mind back to pre-ref when they were shamelessly exploiting a very sad event and how it was all over social media). They chose to ignore those not in their bubble and thought it was a shoo-in for 'remain' and of course lots of 'remain' supporters followed and reacted to their ideas.

A second vote is necessary because voters were deliberately lied to the first time, as shown by the retractions clarifications on Friday.

^^ This.

Tbh I find it appalling that those who are cartwheeling at the result are prepared to turn a blind eye to the lies that some of the 17m based their vote on just because they got what they wanted. And that questions challenging that are met with accusations of bitterness and sour grapes.

And they are the ones bleating on about democracy! Which in a developed country means fair play not based on lies which are retracted immediately after the event.

Is that all that matters now? Winning at all costs? You know that some people were swayed by the lies, but it doesn't matter? If I was on the leave side I'd be livid that the controversy over these lies has undermined the fact that many simply wanted decisions about the UK to be made in the UK. But attacking the people who are questioning the campaigns and pulling up on the lies? Really?

I'm sure a lot of Leavers on here were bright enough to see through that. But it would be easier to stomach if I felt the UK was coming out of the EU because that was the case for everyone and because the majority of its citizens believed in the real issues, rather than believing the porkies or making a protest vote.

But because of how both campaigns were led, we'll never know if the UK is taking this direction for the real genuine reasons and not because the expectation of increased public spending and lower immigrations was enough to tip it into Leave.

And a Remain voter is allowed to question that, even if the Leavers don't seem to want to. And to be labelled undemocratic, desperate and embarrassing for doing that is unreasonable.

You want a democracy? Then the campaigning and voting process has to be open to scrutiny too. Including votes that were gained from lying about the outcome doesn't give you the moral high ground. Far from it.

Poster accusing another poster of making broad generalisations about the motives of people she's never met, makes broad generalisations about the motives of people she's never met.

Hey ho. What a clusterfuck this whole sorry mess is turning out to be.

That was to mollie, btw

I know it because it's obvious that it's going to be a disaster for our economy. There will be a recession in the very near future because of how people will react to this, even before it starts.

When of all people, Donald Trump is the only one congratulating you for something, you know you've fucked up big time. Leave voters will rue the day they put a cross in the wrong box, most of them. I would be delighted to be proven wrong but I fear not.

There is definitely a sense of desperation in the way Cameron resigned - it was like he was washing his hands. What do we actually have to look forward to now? A government more fascist than it ever has been.

I think the only people who are desperate and embarrassing are our leaders. We are left floundering, are we in or out? Do we have a stable government and a strong opposition? If we don't (looking increasingly likely) what is the next step? Anarchy, marshal law? It all sounds very melodramatic but so is the state of our country at the moment. I hope tomorrow morning we will get some reassurance that somebody, anybody, has a plan on how to move forward. Not entirely hopeful though

I hope tomorrow morning we will get some reassurance that somebody, anybody, has a plan on how to move forward. Not entirely hopeful though

There is no plan. The Leave crowd have said as much. Having a plan was never the plan because that might actually weaken their campaign.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2671142-The-Leave-Campaign-dont-have-a-post-Brexit-plan?

That's where Boris is right now, scrabbling for something on the back of a fag packet while muttering 'shitshitshit this wasn't supposed to happen' under his breath.

Has it been mentioned that the petition was started by a leave voter:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/william-oliver-healey-referendum-petition_uk_576f8b28e4b0232d331e1b39?ausjc2blv0ee9udi

So Boris is now trying to plant the blame firmly back in David Cameron's court, saying 'there is no plan. No 10 should have had a plan'.

Looks like Boris has realised he has risked political suicide and is trying to cling on to the ledge he just jumped off.

There is no plan. A leave vote was never, ever meant to happen. Johnson looked like he was reading the eulogy at his own funeral on Friday. We are all up shit creek with absolutely no paddles in sight.

On plan? No problem says IDS. Holy cow.

Whoever mentioned that bit in The Producers was right. It's almost as if Johnson and Gove tried to run a campaign so transparently ridiculous, so blatantly smelling of horseshit, that no one would ever, ever vote for them.

Except...oh. 17 million did. Fuck.

And over one million more people voted out than in that's not a small number.
It really is a small number

It really is a small number.

The Scots who were previously queasy about indyref2 now welcome the idea

Oh ha ha. I'm in Scotland and the only thing making this worse is the idea of indyref2. There is a palpable air of gloom about Brexit and another sodding indyref2.

And it's not as if we weren't forewarned about the limits of democracy... www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/boaty-mcboatface-parliament-lessons/482046/

That's where Boris is right now, scrabbling for something on the back of a fag packet while muttering 'shitshitshit this wasn't supposed to happen' under his breath

The petition was actually started by a leaver as an attempt to trigger a 2nd referendum if leave failed by a small fraction.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-petition-second-eu-referendum-latest-news-vote-leave-a7104076.html

And Farage called for a second referendum in these circumstances too:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

Put that in your pipe and smoke it...

It's the leave campaign that won

Not Farage .....

You want a democracy? Then the campaigning and voting process has to be open to scrutiny too. Including votes that were gained from lying about the outcome doesn't give you the moral high ground. Far from it.

This.

Safe to say that the Leave campaign probably wouldn't have won without Farage...

I believe they're playing cricket, actually Dixie...

saffynool

Is the leave campaign can be proved to have provided false information to the point where voters were swayed into voting for them then I think another referendum should be called

The problem with this is that much of the remain case wasn't based on facts but what might happen which also could be questioned

If I remember rightly the remain campaign on the leaflet promised there would be one referendum and the result would be final

And the remain campaign hammered this home in the last few days of campaigning there is no going back

So if another referendum is called there will just be months and months of political and I guess legal wrangling

But I absolutely would support the leave campaign being investigated but I am sure they have covered this lawyers and advisors would have been on board it was not a plan made up by Boris and co over coffee one morning

Of course Farage could have called for another referendum of the vote was close but he will now go on to attack whatever plan comes up that is what he does

I agree but Farage is and an outsider

It's extraordinary that an outsider has had so much influence he is the reason we had a referendum

What does that say about our shambolic politics

"The problem with this is that much of the remain case wasn't based on facts but what might happen which also could be questioned "

Umm, couldn't it be said the same for the leave camp, except they've started to back track already on everything they said was key, where as actually the remain camp was stating the risks of leaving which are becoming very, very apparent to many.

Best quote I heard today at a group Sunday lunch from a leave voter: " What so I won't be able to retire to France? "

Umm, depends, but without freedom of movement probably not.

This is idiocracy, not democracy.

Farage confirmed that he would seek a second referendum if Leave lost and the petition in question was started by a Leave supporter (when he assumed they had lost).