AIBU to be angry at surprised Brexit voters?

[pestov]

Victoria Derbyshire has been chatting to voters all morning, and more than one admitted voting to leave, but being shocked and worried about the resulting political turmoil. What did they think was going to happen!? I just can't understand their logic.

Leaving the EU is an utter disaster. Anyone in an informed position will tell you so - and did tell you so. So how can you say you made a "very educated decision".

Based on what?

Some undefined notion of "getting your country back?" What does that even look like? What does it even mean?

It looks like a slogan. Easy to say, easy to remember.

Far less confusing than reasoned discussion.

happ and single: I have no argument at all with leave voters who made a considered decision, thought about both the up and downsides of that decision and then voted leave as they thought that was the best option.

I am frustrated by those who did not consider their decision and are surprised by the outcome.

I do also think that there is some unhelpful conflation of 'statistical data' with 'value judgements'.

It is not ageist to say that more old people than young people voted to leave - that is what the statistics say happened.

Equally it is not critical of the poor to say that they were more likely to vote leave than the rich - it is simply a piece of data.

in terms of education, the comment that those who are degree educated were more likely to vote remain and those educated to GCSE level to vote leave is simply factual, based on statistical data. It is not a commentary on being 'clever', simply that is what happened - probably more because those who have benefited from the 'status quo', including those with the 'most portable job prospects' have tended to vote for remain 9the status quo) and those who are doing less well currently are more likely to viote for leave (change).

What's a protest vote anyway? It's like saying 'I know what the vote is about but screw that, it means this instead because I want it to.' And then afterwards saying (when it turns out you did actually vote for what it said on the ballot sheet), 'But it was a protest vote! It wasn't meant to be taken seriously!' Like a toddler who throws away their pancake because they weren't allowed chocolate spread with it.

Yes, Leave lied.

Remain still ran a bad campaign, it was like the Zac Goldsmith's Mayoral Campaign and that lost too.

There was no such thing as an educated decision to vote Leave. Education means informed yourself with accurate facts from reputable sources and then acting accordingly. No one voting leave could possibly have done this.

informing

The Leave campaign lied about everything.

There are no "hordes" of immigrants over-running our country. Last year 330,000 came in - 0.5% rise in population

We do not pay £350 million a week to the EU

They have no intention of diverting this (non-existent) money to the NHS

We will have to allow free movement if we want to do any sort of trade deal with the EU

We will have to pay a tariff similar to what we pay now

We will have no power over decisions made within the EU

Norway said we were crazy to consider this and that their position as a non-member was a mistake

75% of UK laws are not make by unelected officials in Brussels. Around 13% of laws come down and our MEPs are elected by us to represent us in these decisions

So why on earth did you vote for this?

I knew this would happen, it's the wine and water thing isn't it.

Lots of people seem to feel that, in voting leave, they have stuck it to the man.

When they have really just handed all the power straight to the man, the establishment, the people they claim to despise.

Zac Goldsmith lost the Mayoral campaign because he is an utter twat. Not comparable to this at all

So why did Remain lose then, if the campaign was right?

I think some voted leave to get Cameron out - guess what, this has come back to bite them on the backside. Lose Cameron get Boris or Gove or IDS, God help us.

I will tell you what is bloody frustrating. It is when you lay out all these actual, verifiable facts to a Leave supporter, and they just go quiet. No response at all.

Come on someone! What is this "educated decision" to leave the EU?? What does it look like??

"So why did Remain lose then, if the campaign was right?"

People do not WANT to believe the people who are telling them that they can't have the timnsel and unicorns. They prefer to say that the nasty man must be lyiong and that tinsel and unicorns are to be had for the asking because the other, nice man said so.

The loss of all trust in politicians and professional experts is what is behind this, tbh - we have learned to go on 'our gut feel' and 'what we see on social media' rather than evaluate the standing and expertise of the person giving us the information.

What code said. Who has been consistently good on these issues all day!

So why did Remain lose then, if the campaign was right?

Because the Leave campaign lied, and lied, and lied again. And people closed their eyes to the facts and believed them.

Lots of people seem to feel that, in voting leave, they have stuck it to the man

When they have really just handed all the power straight to the man, the establishment, the people they claim to despise

I know, they seem to think they're voting to teach Simon Cowell or Len Goodman a lesson. It's win win for the Tories.

What they've actually done is shoot themselves in the foot. And set about learning a very long, painful lesson in ecomonics.

Scary teacher France entered into the bilateral agreement with UK because it felt obliged to cooperate with a fellow EU member. They made it quite clear that should the UK decide to leave that they would not feel obliged to continue the agreement. It involves French sovereignty over French soil. With so much talk about British sovereignty you can't expect no sauce for the gander.
If the French can be persuaded to continue to cooperate in the short term it will cost a whole lot more. After all the continued presence of the Jungle is costing their local businesses

Leave were also clever in that they never gave out a detailed plan, just played on the fears and concerns of their target voters. So they were clear on what they were against, and painted a lovely shiny but completely vague picture of what the world would be like without any of those fears and concerns ... without ever getting down to the brass tacks of how any of this might be delivered.

Nice to condescend to the electorate. Let's see what happens. No one knows and could work out very well for us.

Ftse down less than 4% now, hardly seismic! And a weaker pound is a big win for exporters.

Remain lost for the same reason we could well have a President Trump. People have bought into the fear and hate spewed out because they want something to blame. This sort of thing happens when people feel hard done by.

It happened last time in 1930s Germany and it is what is happening here and in the US right now.

This ticket of "making America great again", "putting the Great back into Great Britain", is precisely the rhetoric that Hitler sold to the masses in the 1930s when Germany was feeling so put upon in the aftermath of the First World War.

And before anyone complains, I am NOT saying Leave voters are Nazis. I am saying that this sort of social tension is incredibly dangerous. And when the lies told by the likes of Trump and Farage become the national narrative, that is when things get really nasty

Larry, can you spell out in detail how it could work out very well?

Including a detailed plan for what the agreement with the EU will look like, and how we will persuade them to do what we would like them to?

I agree with most of the above.

Lord ashcrofts polls were actually pretty shocking reading

especially the stats that state leave voters mostly saw the green movement, socialism and feminism as a bad thing :(

lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/?utm_source=Lord+Ashcroft+Polls&utm_campaign=80ea4229e4-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b70c7aec0a-80ea4229e4-71633365

Happy
You might want to reread your post and reassess your understanding of 'educated'