to think the Remainers aren't going to take this lying down and we won't leave

[SybilEngineer]

A million plus more people voted leave than remain but still over 16 million voted in. And many of the people this will affect - the under 18s - didn't get a say.

The majority of our elected representatives want us to remain as does our capital city.

The EU wants us to remain and once the leaders have stopped throwing their toys around they will realise they need to reform the EU and make changes that will keep UK and all the other eurosceptic people in.

Today has been a body blow for us remainers but, we're shot of Cameron, so we can re-group and start the fight to remain in the EU but with changes that much of Europe wants.

Hearing a lot in the Irish media today about how the Brexit Referendum is 'Advisory', rather than binding.

Teresa May is the likely inheritor of the British PM role, is it possible she'll upend the whole mess with a general election?

(seeing as she's Remain)

TM has said she would implement Brexit.

As for Gove - yes, well he wants out entirely and not a Norway style agreement (although I believe he is going to be in no rush to invoke Art.50, funny that.) I wonder how he is going to square the Scottish, Irish, and Gibraltar questions, for a starter. Then I wonder how he is going to address a labour shortage with an aging population and a lack of immigration. I wonder how he is going to resolve shortages of staff within the NHS. Or is this yet another contest he doesn't want to win?

I really can't see how even the most skilled negotiator can get us out of this mess with as much face saving as possible on all sides, because there are just so many mutually incompatible demands.

TM has said she would implement Brexit

And she wouldn't be the first politician to go back on her word.

I rather hope sense prevails and after a period of negotiation / stalling we remain. I could foresee another vote but with a different question such as: "should the government impliment article 50 based on the extant negotiated position?". Also I would hope that we would clearly define the criteria to avoid a 50.1% situation resulting in exit.
The mess that the leave campaign have left suggests that they never intended to win, and were in the main only trying to promote their own political careers. I feel that this amounts to an abuse of public office. I would go so far to say that we should consider creating new a new offence to deal with this. Whilst prosecuting an MP under such a new law would be very difficult it would clearly set expectations.

engineer still not really getting it, huh?

Getting what?

The whole fiasco that's playing out in front of our eyes?
The one our children will ask why we didn't stop?
I think Engineer is getting it, absolutely.

You don't agree with the result and are responding hysterically.

How does the comment about responding hysterically, help to get the country out of the current mess?

Or are you going to tell us that a lame duck PM who resigned the day he didn't get the result he wanted, a candidate for PM a man who is seen to have stabbed two close friends in the back and an Opposition turning on their own leader, that this is all hunky dory? Meanwhile, those who wanted to kick the immigrants out, are having a field day; those who want to 'take control of our laws' may or may not get that control.

When we cut deals with the rest of the world, will we really want to have to kowtow to say, Chinese laws? Will that be 'taking back sovereignity'?

I'm being pragmatic I'm afraid.

Leave won the Ref but the whole county lost.
You are the one who just won't see and admit it.

Leavers are in denial about what they've rather clearly done to the economy (and society with the open racism we've seen this past week). I think we have to keep calling them to account. All the defensive cries of 'sore losers' won't distract from what havoc they have brought down on the rest of us.

Please can you stop for one minute and recognise that people think differently to you?

There is no "right" answer here. Please read that sentence again.

No one is right. This was a decision making process based on an assessment of a multitude of things.

There were lies on both sides hence why sensible voters in either camp assessed matters for themselves.

I am sorry you feel so wretched about it.

And "Joffrey" this blanket assertion that Leave voters are all racist is precisely why the Remain camp lost in the first place.

Decision making process based on an assessment of a multitude of things?

Nonsense.
It's was wishful thinking based on lies, manipulations and jingonism.

In YOUR opinion Chardonnay.

You have no idea why many people voted Leave, including me.

Given that there is was no discussion of whether leaving the EU meant staying in or out of the common market, I don't think anybody knew what they were voting for.

And "Joffrey" this blanket assertion that Leave voters are all racist is precisely why the Remain camp lost in the first place.

There was no "blanket assertion". However, race hate crimes have risen dramatically since the referendum. People's concerns about bigotry and the far right exploiting the political vacuum have proven correct.

Cheers, Ghost. As you say I was referring to the explosion in hate crimes we have seen in public places, this past week. As someone whose (grown up) kids get on the Manchester trams every day, I am not thrilled by the thought of that particular incident and I understand there have been plenty more.

The Leavers do seem prone to hysteria, and very quick to misinterpret pro Remainers' points.

Joffrey, Ghost, there's beginning to be a lot of doubt about the supposed spike in hate crime, including from senior police.

The 57% spike actually refers to one method of reporting - specifically an online form. And the 'crimes' reported are often not crimes at all, but have to go down in the reporting numbers. They've often frivolous, baseless reports based on things like complaining about Nigel Farage or several people reporting the same third or fourth hand account of something viral they've seen on social media. It has been very much fuelled by people on social media egging each other on to make reports for the most tenuous reasons.

The police have said that there is nothing to directly link it to Brexit and a great deal of it does appear to be hysterical scaremongering. A lot of the stuff circulating on social media is on a level with the 'My Aunty's, handyman's, nephew's teacher gave an Arab chap his lost wallet back and he warned her not to come into London next Tuesday' crap that went round after 9/11.

So there's no 'proven correct' at all. More a grasping at flimsy data to try and evidence what is in fact, just confirmation bias.

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/britain-has-not-become-racist-overnight-brexit-eu/18511#.V3fdaPR4WnM

The 57% spike actually refers to one method of reporting - specifically an online form ...

Interesting to see that, as so often, the devil's in the detail ...

BillSykes, how do you know the content of the reports to the police?

That's a very specific claim, saying that reports are complaints about Farage.

Thurrock Police made the comments specifically about complaints against Farage at a press conference a couple of days ago.

The National Police Chief's Confederation released a statement denying there had been any rise in tensions post Brexit and pointing out that it was only online reporting which was up and this did not indicate a 57% rise at a national level. They also pointed out that similar spikes in online reporting happen after other large national or international events and normally go back to normal within a few days. Which is a very professional way of saying 'This is mainly online hysteria'.

The damage to the UK economy, the withdrawal of all the leave campaign's pledges, the total lack of a plan on the leave side and the political back stabbing mationations in the leave team are not hysteria... they are shocking reality!
Does anyone else not think that to make a change of this magnitude thevvast majority of the electorate should have to be in favour, not 30 odd percent?

Thanks. That Thurrock Police briefing is interesting.

It opens with the words "Hate crime has risen," and refers to recent police operations in Tilbury.

The briefer then goes on to talk about reporting of hate crime being up 50% since the day of the referendum, which is where he mentions Farage.

I really hope this is only a spike, and that it passes quickly. It's pretty crap that we have to talk about any hate crime as "normal" levels, but "normal" is less depressing than "increasing".

Meanwhile the spike is rather close to home, as DP's (British) colleague came into work upset after getting "go home" shit on the train. So roll on "normal".

Last week racist remarks were scrawled in a number of buildings on my university campus including the one I work in. Not a big deal but not awesome either.