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Brexit

To point out that not ALL people who voted leave are racist

504 replies

EsmeraldaEllaBella · 24/06/2016 08:47

I'd describe myself as extreme left. I voted leave because the EU's undemocratic. Today I wake up to ALL of my Facebook posting statuses about how they feel sick etc. all my friends are liberal, some of them would hate me if they knew. But if I was asked outright I'd probably be honest. I've made new friends recently who would definitely never speak to me again if they knew though. I feel like everyone who voted leave has been branded a racist. I feel uncomfortable that probably lots of them are sad I feel very uneasy being lumped in with them and might come to regret my decision

Posted this elsewhere but in need of some hand holding I think! Or maybe someone who feels the same way? Anyone?

OP posts:
originalmavis · 30/06/2016 07:39

The racist attacks are well documented. There was even graffiti daubed on a local Spanish school down the road from us.

Fawful · 30/06/2016 08:27

The 'concerns' people have about immigration are not concerns, they are prejudices.
I find it sickening to see people trying to keep for themselves their unnaturally high standards of living, obtained throughout the years at the cost of many people's welfare around the globe.
I wish people checked their fucking privileges.

Kimononono · 30/06/2016 08:32

Bat even though you have personal experience of this, that point will not go down well on here as it doesn't fit the dome of the remainers hysterical drama.

Racist attacks have always happened. I see them on my new feed all the time. Vile and disgusting But you know what? Not all of them are white on ethnic minorities - but you know what? That point won't go down well either as we're not allowed to talk about 'that kind of racism' on here.

It's funny how nice notes on the polish doors, telling them not to leave in Wales hasn't been screeched about either - but oh yes that doesn't fit the agenda does it!

BertrandRussell · 30/06/2016 08:35

I always find it fascinating when people say they are "not allowed" to talk about things on here. Who's stopping them?

Kimononono · 30/06/2016 08:43

Faw do you live in a high immigration area where it's weeks before you can get a GP appointment, or the local school you grew up near can't accept your child because of over subscription due to high immigration? What about the effects on hospital waiting times?

The office of national immigration predicts that 500,000 immigrants ( bringing children over and having children) will increase the population every year. 8 million over 15 years That's about the size of the city of Liverpool springing up yearly. Where is the housing, schooling, medical care going to come from? The goverment are all ready pulling funds for hospitals and schools forcing a austerity program.

You tell me how wo can cope with the extra load. So do fuck of with the racist prejudice bull shit. It's getting boring.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 08:44

Bert This is Schrödinger's Post-Factual Kingdom now. In fact, I might copyright that Grin

Kimononono · 30/06/2016 08:45

Ah fascinating you say bert ? Are you going to disappear or ignore posts again when you don't like some thing again?

ethelb · 30/06/2016 08:46

OP, the thing is as a Lexiter you may have stuck to some opaque principle about sticking it to the bosses by not supporting an institution you feel supports them. Well woopdy fucking do.

However, the complete negligence of the fact that in order to do so you had to a) vote for a recession for ordinary workers, b) put wind in the sails of fascists, c) jeopardise workers rights and d) undermine a peace-keeping institution has meant the Left's position has lost all credibility.

The complaint that you feel like people are unfairly accusing you of racism is the absolute pinnacle of white privilege.

You do realise that people are now less physically safe than they were the day before you cast your vote because of the colour of their skin or the language they speak, don't you?

merrymouse · 30/06/2016 08:46

Where is the housing, schooling, medical care going to come from?

Their taxes.

The NHS is under strain because of the elderly, not immigration.

BertrandRussell · 30/06/2016 08:50

"Ah fascinating you say bert ? Are you going to disappear or ignore posts again when you don't like some thing again?"

That must be the first time I have ever been accused of "disappearing"!Grin

What did I ignore?

Fawful · 30/06/2016 08:56

I don't believe anyone has to wait for weeks to see a gp. Or that this country is anything other than one if the most prosperous on Earth. No amount of crying about the school you grew up near will make me feel more sorry for you than most people on the planet. This country is not full of immigrants. Check your privileges.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 08:59

We truly are Schrödinger's Post-Factual Kingdom now.

The Leave voters are simultaneously the triumphant majority who deserve adulation and sweep all before them, and the cowering masses utterly oppressed and terrorised by unkind comments of the minority - Leave voters are the "Marginalised Majority". And, by the way, the bruising of feelings by angry and shocked words is exactly equivalent (no! worse!) than the actuality of throwing the country (and the world economy) into chaos.

The Leave majority must constantly remind Remain that they are the insignificant minority who have been vanquished, and yet Remain voters have such a power that their negative attitudes alone can could set the Good Ship Titanic New Britain astray from its course, their impure thoughts can call racists into existence.

No Leave voters made their choice because of immigration, even when I see multi-paragraph essays about exactly that on the same thread. Pointing out that it actually does look like some Leave voters are angry about immigration is exactly the same as "dehumanising" them with the "secret police".

Leave voters collectively know better than the government who wanted us to Remain, and yet they expected the same know-nothing government to actually sort out that complicated Leaving business for them. (See also Experts).

People who are upset by what's happened to this country and feel unwelcome should shut up and fuck off elsewhere instead of making up untruths about being abused, and yet they should stay and apply their effort and skills towards our glorious future.

£9 billion per year being paid to the EU is an outrageous sum being stolen from the people, but £8 billion lost to shareholders (that's us, folks) in one morning from RBS crash alone is insignificant. In fact, "nothing has happened".

The UK simultaneously has the greatest, bravest and most wonderful people on earth (well, as long as they're not of foreign origin or worse, Remain voters), and yet is being brutally crushed and robbed, held back from its golden potential, by a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys using the power of, um, stern words.

Leaving is a powerful and positive action to free us from undemocratic oppression, and yet we are going to take our sweet time and nobody can make us leave.

And never forget, nothing is happening (job losses - made up! racial incidents - exaggerated! economic turmoil - insignificant jiggles! people feeling upset - fuck off!) unless it seems like good news (markets stabilised - hurrah! but they never collapsed in the first place, ok! hovercraft sales - new basis for flourishing economy!).

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/06/2016 09:00

I wish people checked their fucking privileges

Sounds like a "bingo" moment to me ... Grin

originalmavis · 30/06/2016 09:01

Immigrants in the City pay a fuck load of taxes. The head of the bank of England is an immigrant.

Last time I was in hospital the staff were mostly non European nationals, and for some reason the waiting room had about half a dozen Korean girls having blood test and drips attached to them. The rest of us poor buggers were, from what I could tell, Brits. And where I live there is a very low % population if white Brits. I like it. Rather live in a highly mixed area that with frothing arses ranting about 'them foreigners'. And yes, foreigners are racist too.

GetAHaircutCarl · 30/06/2016 09:02

It's interesting that the Leave supporters so desperately try to distance themselves from racism.

And yet, when people are reporting racist attacks they try to minimise them, which is surely a classic example of racism Confused.

Fawful · 30/06/2016 09:05

Maybe we can be more accurate than 'a lot of leavers are racist', and say instead that voters with an overriding concern about immigration might be prejudiced and selfish. Is that better?

CaptainBrickbeard · 30/06/2016 09:09

I am revolted by the people who are more upset about being called racists than they are about actual racism to the extent that they are denying the racism that is occurring as a direct result of this referendum campaign. Farage put up a great big racist poster in support of Leave. The racists are on your side. You might not be one yourself but you voted alongside them. How dare you complain and accuse others of bigotry whilst you minimise and deny the racist attacks that are happening because of the Leave vote. Sorry that your feelings are wounded but if you align yourself with racists, that will happen. Why not direct your anger at the racists who hijacked your cause and used your non-racist stance as a platform to legitimise their own racist views? Is it because perhaps they won the vote for you and without the racist element, Leave would have lost? So you think turning on Remainers in an attempt to distract from the actual racism taking place will make you feel better? Get angry with the racists. Condemn them. But accept that they are on your side, not ours.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 09:17

Well said Captain, but when I tried a similar (and I thought I was being quite nice) argument last night I got back ^ and ^ Grin Although I adored the post this morning about cowering from the secret police and being dehumanised - brilliant satire! (Please God let it be satire)

CaptainBrickbeard · 30/06/2016 09:24

Element, I am really with you on the emoji trajectory in response to the secret police statement - yeah, I start laughing but then I remember that this kind of crushing stupidity is apparently a majority and I want to cry. On reading something like that, I want to high five myself in amused delight. Only, in the face. With a chair.

Cordychase · 30/06/2016 09:24

I voted leave, I am also not racist. Immigration was not my biggest bug bear about the EU. My biggest reason, though not limited to, was democracy. In recent times up to 60% of our laws have been made by the EU, by unelected officials. This is not democracy.

The EU’s law-making process is fundamentally undemocratic.

There are four key institutions of the EU: the European Commission, European Parliament, European Council and the Court of Justice of the EU. Each institution supposedly represents separate interests. The Commission represents the EU, the Parliament represents the people, the Council represents the Governments of each Member State and the Court interprets the law.

The EU Commission is the guardian of the treaties and enforces EU law. More importantly, this means it is the Government of Europe which has the sole right to propose the laws which increasingly encroach on our lives here in Britain.

The Commission is made up of 28 UNELECTED commissioners, who cannot be held to account. Each commissioner has a specific policy area in which to create laws. The Commission has a President (currently Jean-Claude Juncker); unlike the other 27 commissioners he is personally elected by the European Parliament, however his was the only name on the ballot paper, not exactly democratic. The Commission is advised by the Directorate General, which along with the Commission is heavily lobbied. Once the Commission proposes an EU law, this proposal is taken to the Parliament.

Secondly, the Parliament is made up of 751 MEPs who are elected by the people in EU Member States every five years in elections. National parties arrange themselves into European groups of similar parties throughout Europe. It also has a President (currently Martin Schulz) who was voted in by the Parliament, but once again he was the only candidate. Theoretically, the Parliament has the ability to remove the Commission; however the Parliament has never successfully been able to remove it - even when the Commission has been full of corrupt cronies. The Parliament didn’t even remove the commission of 2004 to 2009 which was full of questionable characters. This Commission included Siim Kallas the Anti-Fraud Commissioner who was given this role despite being charged with fraud, abuse of power and providing false information after £4.4million disappeared while he was head of Estonia’s national bank.

This is not a Parliament in any real sense, as they have no right to propose laws. Instead it is a façade, created to make the EU look democratic, rather than give the public a choice over those who makes their laws. The Parliament does vote and can make amendments on laws proposed by the Commission, but the Commission must accept any of the amendments proposed for the changes to become effective, showing where the power lies.

Additionally, once something becomes an EU law, the Parliament has no ability to propose a change to this law. All the power is given to the Commission. It is clear the public’s elected representatives do not matter in the EU. Once the Parliament approves an EU proposal, it is sent to the European Council.

The European Council - sometimes called The Council - is the meeting of the Member States. It is called the European Council when the leaders of each Member State are in attendance, and The Council when it’s the ministers for the policy area being discussed attending. This is the final hurdle any European proposal has to pass in order to become law. Decision-making at this stage is done almost entirely by Qualified Majority Voting. This means the UK Government can vote against a proposal and as long as it receives enough votes from the other Member States it becomes law in the UK anyway. It is interesting to note that the UK has voted against laws in these sessions 72 times, and 72 times we lost. The EU commission is a ‘club’ to push through laws which would be rejected by national Parliaments. The UK only has a veto to prevent EU laws impacting the UK in a very minor number of areas. If the European Council/Council approves proposals, they become EU law. They will be in the form of EU regulations or directives. If they are regulations the new EU law applies to all Member States without any of those states having to pass legislation in their own home Parliaments. If they are directives, the national Parliaments are forced to change their national laws within a specific time limit to comply with EU law - whether they want to or not.

Finally, the Court of Justice of the EU is supposed to interpret EU laws to ensure they comply with the EU treaties. Unfortunately, it does not do this. It happily ignores the treaties when it wants to if the EU is pushing its own federalist agenda. This is not a court like we have in this country; it is a kangaroo court wilfully ignoring the rule of law, as it did with the bailouts which should have been deemed illegal. The treaties clearly stated bailouts were illegal, but as the bailouts helped to prop up the failing Eurozone project, the EU court allowed them anyway.

Then there is the money, out of all the money we sent to the EU we got about half back in the form of subsidies and grants. The rest the EU keep to spend how they like, and for which they are unaccountable. For example our meps get paid around 60k, on top of this they can claim 40k in expenses without having to produce one reciept. Each year the EU spends millions relocating their offices for 4 days. These are just two examples of the monumental ways in which the EU is not accountable for their spending of OUR money, and how it wastes it.

This is akin to someone for example taking £350 off you, feeling sorry for you and giving you half back but telling you how you can spend it.

This is not democracy. We will be better off outside the EU, where we can make our own laws, decide where our money is spent, not have to foot the bill of future EU bailouts, make our own trade deals and immigration policies.

The EU have been incredibly arrogant in their treatment of the UK, ignoring our concerns and issues. If they were that bothered about us being in the EU they would have been more open to the reforms that Cameron was requesting. They either thought we wouldnt hold a referendum on EU membership, or they thought the remain camp would win.

They do not work for the benefit of all its member states. You only have to look at Greece, and the impact the EU has had on them for the proof of this. Greece is in a terrible state due to the Austerity measures imposed by the EU. The EU doesnt care that a direct effect of its policies are having, with adults and children in Athens being diagnosed with malnutrition, parents can no longer afford to vaccinate their children, hospitals are missing basic painkillers and bed sheets amongst other things.

In the future I am in no doubt the country will breath a sigh of relief that we left when we could.

Dawndonnaagain · 30/06/2016 09:39

do you live in a high immigration area where it's weeks before you can get a GP appointment, or the local school you grew up near can't accept your child because of over subscription due to high immigration? What about the effects on hospital waiting times?
No, there is no immigration here (deepest darkest East Anglia) and yet it's still weeks before you can get a GP appointment, or the local school can accept all the local children. That's due to government underfunding and absolutely nothing to do with immigration. Immigration is a convenient hook on which to hang irrelevant woes.

BertrandRussell · 30/06/2016 09:51

I live in a low immigration area and there's a 3 week wait for a non urgent GP appointment and not enough primary school places.

BertrandRussell · 30/06/2016 09:52

Cordychase- are you equally bothered about ambassadors and senior civil servants in this country not being elected?

merrymouse · 30/06/2016 09:53

In recent times up to 60% of our laws have been made by the EU

That statistic is a bit dodgy.

The 60% figure includes every last EU regulation on trading standards whether or not they are relevant to the UK.

About 15% of laws refer to the EU but that doesn't imply that the UK disagreed with them, wouldn't have enforced them anyway, or that they weren't part of international agreements that went beyond the EU.

Even then however percentages and numbers aren't really relevant. 15 rules about the sale of pencils isn't as relevant as one rule about freedom of speech.

The 72 is an estimate that takes into account a time when there were no records. The UK has definitely voted no on 58 occasions, but in the same period voted yes on almost 2500 occasions. You can't win them all.

Kimononono · 30/06/2016 10:05

Where is the housing, schooling, medical care going to come from?

Their taxes

The NHS is under strain because of the elderly, not immigration

Actually a very high percentage are low wage earners which or may qualifiy them for tax credits. So they pay very little in to paying for hospitals ect... Certainly not enough to cover the huge amounts that are needed to cover vital resources.

I'm staggard at the sheer blinkardness and adamant to accuse people of being monsters on this thread. When I can only see bigots pointing the finger

The elderly who have propped this country up for decades are now the reason the NHS is failing and It's now insinuated that if you claim your not racist you probally are.

Wow. This is the calibre of MN today. I'm beyond glad we voted out.