To point out that not ALL people who voted leave are racist

[EsmeraldaEllaBella]

I'd describe myself as extreme left. I voted leave because the EU's undemocratic. Today I wake up to ALL of my Facebook posting statuses about how they feel sick etc. all my friends are liberal, some of them would hate me if they knew. But if I was asked outright I'd probably be honest. I've made new friends recently who would definitely never speak to me again if they knew though. I feel like everyone who voted leave has been branded a racist. I feel uncomfortable that probably lots of them are sad I feel very uneasy being lumped in with them and might come to regret my decision

Posted this elsewhere but in need of some hand holding I think! Or maybe someone who feels the same way? Anyone?

my vote would still count.

Well, yes.

I don't see how the list of your excellent personal credentials (short version: I'm great, me) connects logically with your first paragraph .

We already know that not all Leave voters are racists. Your first paragraph would appear to imply that racists are being called into being by the act of labelling them, like a crude form of nominative determinism. Or calling for Voldemort

i do not profess to own a list of "excellent personal credentials"
I was hoping that a little bit of basic background would merely illustrate that, contrary to popular belief, people who voted to leave the EU have not necessarily done so becaue they're uneducated or right wing or racist.

And I do believe that the continued demonisation of the majority of voters will fuel disharmony in much the same way that the dismissal of so many people's concerns has done in the past.

But it's obviously hard to counter the intellectually robust argument about a children's book character.

We already know that not all Leave voters are racists. Your first paragraph would appear to imply that racists are being called into being by the act of labelling them, like a crude form of nominative determinism. Or calling for Voldemort

But isn't that kind of magical thinking what's going on everywhere?

I'm knee-deep across all my social media in people talking about 'lying down with dogs and catching fleas' and quotations about being judged by the company you keep, interspersed with continued bald assertions that most Leave voters are racist.

Why is this still interesting enough to be still saying it over and over and over again nearly a week after the poll? What's the point.

It can only be a feeling that sufficiently dismissing the credentials, the intelligence, the judgement etc of the 52%, they can be made to evaporate.

What other purpose is it serving?

I was hoping that a little bit of basic background would merely illustrate that, contrary to popular belief, people who voted to leave the EU have not necessarily done so becaue they're uneducated or right wing or racist.

It's not something that the 48% want illustrated Hippie. Not one bit.

HippieP, are we talking about people's real, tangible & heartfelt concerns? Or their prejudices? Is it not worth exploring the difference a little?

I'm not sure what a 'tangible concern' is Fawful, but this series of films is illuminating and might help (I've posted the link on one other thread but it bears repitition, I think);

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/22/eu-referendum-welcome-to-the-divided-angry-kingdom-video

i honestly don't know what else to say here.
I cast my vote in good faith.
as a "leave" voter I have been accused of being racist, stupid and right wing
When I try to defend myself, with a bit of information, against these accusations I am accused of being irrelevant, smug and uncomprehending of the real issues.

I'm not sure what a 'tangible concern' is Fawful, but this series of films is illuminating and might help (I've posted the link on one other thread but it bears repitition, I think);

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/22/eu-referendum-welcome-to-the-divided-angry-kingdom-video

The fact is out of 16+ million remain voters it will be near statistically impossible that some weren't racist, They just had more important reasons than immigration so they voted in another way.

So why is it only the leave voters who have to tackle racisits? Just because there was more in 'our side'?

The far right, UKIP and some members of the general public have always been racist, well before the EU was even heard of. They have believed their vile thoughts all their adults lives.

Yes the referendum and the leave result has increased incidents and that is horrible, I don't neccesarily think the referendum has created more racists, it's just caused the quiet ones to suddenly pipe up abd others get themselves on TV.

As I've said before, tackling Racism is the responsibility of the WHOLE OF SOCIETY, that includes leave voters, remain voters, non-voters and under 18s.

Lets not play racist top trumps and instead fight them together.

For the love of Dog! I need to step away from this discussion. I certainly don't think I was one of the people cussing out Leave voters for all being racist/old/etc, or whatever set of angry verbiage triggered the 4566+ self-pitying threads about this. It just does my head in when I see failures in basic logic .

So: If somebody (let's call them Horrible Remainer) out that some Leave voters are racist does not necessarily mean that they think all Leave voters are racist, and furthermore it does not mean that Horrible Remainer is particularly calling you (let's call you Lovely Leaver).

I tested this on my 7-yo DDs at dinnertime today. I asked, "If I say: Many children don't like vegetables, does that mean I am telling you that YOU don't like vegetables ?" Bless their little genius brains, they gave the right answer .

No but you ARE making out that the leavers have to do something about it.

I maintain EVERYBODY has to do something about.

I tested this on my 7-yo DDs at dinnertime today. I asked, "If I say: Many children don't like vegetables, does that mean I am telling you that YOU don't like vegetables ?" Bless their little genius brains, they gave the right answer

And if one of them invites a classmate round for tea, and said classmate doesn't eat their broccoli, do you warn your DC that their vegetable eating habits will be judged by the 'company they keep'?

See I'm not sure that will work-

It's estimated approx 80 % of exitters voted out in the hope of immigration control (let's avoid the 'is that a racist stance'- and even the 'is that a realistic stance' question)
that's what they appear to want.
Of course they're not all going to shout abuse on a bus, but they want less foreigners here. Their son in law, doctor, friends are fine, but a line has to drawn...
It does make it tricky to 'fight racism' together. (Not trying to be snide but...)

And if one of them invites a classmate round for tea, and said classmate doesn't eat their broccoli, do you warn your DC that their vegetable eating habits will be judged by the 'company they keep'?
No, but said child will fully comprehend that it will be okay to tell the broccoli to fuck off, loud and long.

So racism didn't exist before the referendum or all of you remain voters did everything in your power to snuff it out?

No, thought not.

Is anyone saying that?

A spotlight has been shine on immigration and maybe the ruling classes are finally waking up to the fact that for many people it is a 'problem'. But the people now expect a solution to that 'problem'. For now they think exiting the eu is the answer...

Certainly! Lots of good reasons. Though given I've never before had a vote that affected anything in the uk it's find the non democratic argument puzzling.

HOWEVER all the racist people I know voted leave. You joined up with racist groups. Deal with it.

Also if your friends disown you they are terrible and not your friends . Good luck!

It's obvious for some of you nothing a leave voter can say will make you change your mind or accept anything they say.

It's not really about racism for some of you, it's about point scoring, back slapping and trying to take the moral high ground.

I hope that's not to me. My posts are conciliatory, fumbling to find a way forwards...

lotbyname
I really can't help it that you know so many racists.
Why don't you deal with it

And no, i absolutely did not join up with a racist group
But your continued harping and aggression and nastiness will lead to more trouble by marginalising the majority.
But i guess that is ok with you.

Sadly, racists are not created by magical thinking. Neither do they evaporate if we don't talk about them or where they came from.

There was austerity. The struggling for dwindling resources. Desperation and deprivation breeds resentment. But racism was pretty unacceptable socially so the polite classes didn't think we had A Problem.

Then there was the harnessing of that poverity and resentment to the Leave agenda - a calculated move for political gain. The Leave campaign flirted with racism and had a very sizeable racist fringe element (debatably more than fringe) but the stated goals of the official campaign were not in themselves racist, nor did you have to be racist to support it. Nevertheless many were.

Then Leave won and those who had been encouraged (by Farage and others) to support the campaign on a racism ticket thought they'd won. Not unsurprisingly, a lot of people suddenly thought racism was ok again.

Then we had the racism, the violence and the bigotry. People scared to go outside without their passport.

To anyone from Northern Ireland, this is all so very, very familiar. The politicians and the middle classes can wash their hands of the bigoted element all they like but it's impossible to distance from them entirely because their support was needed to get the vote. Their support was borne out of their resentment against others, which was borne out of suffering and deprivation. Although I don't altogether blame Cameron for his austerity measures because he was faced with a very difficult job for the country, it all began right there.

If we are all so very principled and moral and nice here, can't we focus on the real victims (none of whom appear to be on mumsnet)? Our country's descent into hatred and bigotry is the only real disaster to have unfolded so far post-Brexit. If things keep on the way they've started, it may become hard to imagine anything worse that could have happened to us. Personally, I'm ashamed to be British this week and I'd like to do a bit more than wearing a safety pin to show it.

Just5mins I mainly saw people parroting things. That lady who thinks she is at the bottom of the list - what imaginary list is she at the bottom of? I've read on other threads that the unemployment rate is not that high in the uk, and at any rate, there's a recession, so yes, times will be hard. 'It's our country': what are they talking about? My British DP was in a pretty crap shape when I met him, having lost a job through his own fault, and I made him all ok again. I'm foreign and not ready to accept I'm a problem for this country without evidence.

I live in an area where most people voted Leave because they are racist. Sorry to bring you that news.