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Brexit

To point out that not ALL people who voted leave are racist

504 replies

EsmeraldaEllaBella · 24/06/2016 08:47

I'd describe myself as extreme left. I voted leave because the EU's undemocratic. Today I wake up to ALL of my Facebook posting statuses about how they feel sick etc. all my friends are liberal, some of them would hate me if they knew. But if I was asked outright I'd probably be honest. I've made new friends recently who would definitely never speak to me again if they knew though. I feel like everyone who voted leave has been branded a racist. I feel uncomfortable that probably lots of them are sad I feel very uneasy being lumped in with them and might come to regret my decision

Posted this elsewhere but in need of some hand holding I think! Or maybe someone who feels the same way? Anyone?

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 22:43

Asprilla, Hippie and others - I get that you feel offended because you believe that your opposition have tarred you all with the same brush. If anybody has sweepingly declared all Leave voters to be anything (even something positive, OK - fair's fair) that is NOT RIGHT.

But (oh god, I hate this kind of Offence Olympics bullshit) judging by the sheer number of outraged threads and posts on this talkboard alone, it seems to me that some Leave voters are ultimately concerned about defending their hurt feelings over and above the feelings of people who are actually experiencing xenophobic abuse. Again - SOME! SOME !

I've read posts claiming attacks are made up, to the extent of examining photos of graffiti and claiming it was done by the victims' own people. I've read posts minimising attacks because it wasn't murder. I've read countless posts (including on this thread) sharing the blame for the rise in incidents, by various convoluted means, with Remain. On threads where foreign-born posters share their sadness at feeling unwelcome in the country they called home, they've been told to get a grip and get over it.

All this effort expended by defensive-feeling Leave voters to deflect any association with this ugliness - why? (1) Is it a niggling feeling that just maybe a teeny tiny bit they do admit some very unfortunate running-mates in the campaign? (2) Or (how much worse!) because they really do equate their hurt feelings at a perceived slight with actually experiencing racial abuse?

I think you guys who have bothered to engage with Remain posters at all are bloody marvellous, so I'd prefer to think it's (1) Smile

HippiePrincess · 29/06/2016 22:44

I am sorry to hear that so many of you mix with racists.
I am not one of them

HippiePrincess · 29/06/2016 22:46

and I absolutely do not deny there is racism in the UK btw.

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 22:57

Hippie Sorry, what?

Dawndonnaagain · 29/06/2016 23:00

So racism didn't exist before the referendum or all of you remain voters did everything in your power to snuff it out?
Yes it did, both dd and I experienced it, however, as has been pointed out the leave vote gave what many seem to have considered a legitimacy to the voice of said racists, so people are suffering the consequences of that.

No, thought not.
Having been beaten up by the National Front some 40 years ago, I have always voiced my opposition to racists.

But your continued harping and aggression and nastiness will lead to more trouble by marginalising the majority.
It's not really a majority though is it. It's a just barely scraped through and heavily bolstered by a racist vote. That's being realistic.
As for marginalising, that's already happened and will continue to do so, only it's not the leave campaign that is being marginalised...

HippiePrincess · 29/06/2016 23:02

sorry, what?
Ditto

HippiePrincess · 29/06/2016 23:03

It is a majority
A small margin, but a majority
So yes, it is really a majority

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 23:04

It

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 23:04

Just looked

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 23:05

Like you were replying to my post.

!Fucking phone!

Asprilla11 · 29/06/2016 23:10

There is one valid argument against the current immigration policy but it's never been put across by any of the leave campaign, it has also never been properly explored by the Government.

It is Housing and Infrastructure against population growth. The Public Services and Infrastructure shortage problem is big, but nothing compared to the housing shortage.

There are not enough affordable homes and social housing to cope with the current population, you then have the annual growth in population and then on top of that again you have immigration adding over 300,000 (EU & Non-EU).

In May 2014, Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, complained that housebuilding in the UK was half that of his native Canada, despite the UK having a population twice the size. The consequences have been rocketing prices in London, the South East and some other parts of the country.

Current estimates are for 300,000 or more a year being built to just and try and catch up with the shortage.

Now the problem is not the immigrant population themselves, they add more to the economy than they take out and are very hard working, it's simply a matter of numbers. We don't have enough houses, it's that simple. This is why you find cases of 10 EU nationals living in a two bed house and landlords converting sheds to take advantage of desperate people and then charge them the earth.

Now if the Government and the EU as a whole, actually looked at the numbers, looked at which countries were affected the most and planned in advance, even just slightly, buy building more homes then the problems would never have been so bad.

If our Government had said at the last election they would actually put even more money in to housing than they did and got going with the actual building in a quick manner, things may have improved.

If the EU could have allowed a temporary block or cap in countries that are struggling with a housing shortage this could have allowed them to ficus on getting homes built for the current population and then start for the future immigration population. If this was temporary reduction or block with a promise to reinstate ASAP then there may have been less misplaced hostility towards immigration. Obviously refugees and asylum seekers would still be allowed.

But the EU refuse to budge or compromise and how the freedom of movement works for the UK and the rest of the EU. They just open the borders and expect each country to just deal with the numbers.

If immigration had been argued in a grown up manner and the Government (including the last 2) responded by listening to concerns and identifying that overcrowding was a big problem, made worse by the housing shortage then promised to act, some of this could have been avoided. But 'immigration concern' has been too difficult for all politicians to talk about and get to the root problems.

HippiePrincess · 29/06/2016 23:10

whatever Dawn
Carry on with the bigotry
Carry on with the dismissal of the majority vote
Whatever makes you feel righteous
I no longer have the will or the energy to argue or defend myself in this matter

Kummerspeck · 29/06/2016 23:12

I know people who voted Leave and I know people who voted Remain, most of both groups are lovely, some in each group are knobs.

One or two of the leavers I know were bothered by immigration and have some racist/xenophobic tendencies (not so they would ever be unpleasant to an actual person but in thinking of us and them) but some of the Remain voters are just the same, it just so happens that their lives are not currently affected by these issues so they didn't see it as a priority.

Almost all of both groups read, discussed and listened to others' opinions before the referendum and, all made informed decisions. Contrary to what you read on MN, the two least informed were both Remain (one did not care about much but holiday prices and another likes good wine from France!)
The older people in both groups had gone out of their way to speak to children, grandchildren and younger people as they saw themselves as having a responsibility to younger generations

I have, since the referendum, been incensed both here and on FB at the lazy, generalisations made, particularly about Leave voters from people who, ironically, think they are more educated and tolerant

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 23:15

Hippie Thank you for clarifying your position Wink

Dawndonnaagain · 29/06/2016 23:28

I think you may find that I am the one experiencing bigotry.
I have not accused anyone in particular of racism, I have pointed out the huge increase in incidents of racism since Friday and have pointed out that the leave vote has added a horrible legitimacy to those conducting the abuse.

Fawful · 29/06/2016 23:28

Kummerspeck we don't know how true your anecdotes are.
You are particularly concerned that Leavers should be labelled racists. That's your focus of anger.
And I'm particularly concerned that immigration should be labelled 'a concern', seemingly by everyone, because I don't recognise that it is one.

TheElementsSong · 29/06/2016 23:47

Dawn I believe, sadly, that this is a case for "When someone tells you who they are, believe them."

Kummerspeck · 30/06/2016 00:35

Fawful Nobody knows the veracity of anything on an anonymous forum and we all have to make our own judgements on that but I promise you I would not waste time typing it up if it was not true and it is why I feel so strongly about all that has been said since the vote

Angry is probably too strong a word but I do feel aggrieved that there has been such snobbery and unfair condemnation of a very diverse group of people. Angry is not too strong a word, however, for how I feel towards anyone who thinks racism is ever acceptable

uselessmum1 · 30/06/2016 00:36

Its frightening. You are like a secret police branding all people who voted against the EU superstate as racist. You are dehumanizing us because we did not vote the same way as you. So you will gain the moral high ground and silence all people who have a different political opinion to yourselves. And thus democracy is being eroded.
When you voted remain did you think of the cruel and undemocratic treatment meted out to the people of Greece by the EU? Are their concerns of no matter because they are Greek? OP cannot support the EU because she holds left-wing political views which are completely at odds with the economic lines (neoliberalism) along which the EU is run. Or is being left-wing now racist?

lordStrange · 30/06/2016 00:54

poster uselessmum1
When you voted alongside Nigel Farrage did you not worry a tiny bit? Like, y'know you were being a bit like Farrage. i.e. racist?

Dawndonnaagain · 30/06/2016 03:50

And thus democracy is being eroded.
What utter nonsense.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 06:41

Marginalised majority? Being dehumanised? Secret police?! Shock

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 07:02

Actually, having thought about it in the shower, let's try again:

"Marginalised majority? Being dehumanised? Secret police?! 😄😂😂😂😫😫😭😭

Kimononono · 30/06/2016 07:19

When you voted alongside Nigel Farrage did you not worry a tiny bit? Like, y'know you were being a bit like Farrage. i.e. racist

That there is a perfect example of some remainers utter blinkardness and refusing to accept any of the many other valid reasons that have been given, to why millions of voters voted out. It's pathetic.

Batboobs · 30/06/2016 07:27

I find the whole thing very odd. I didn't vote, but my partner did (to leave) and we are both mixed race, our families are on all spectrums of the rainbow - some of them voted leave also, there is definitely no racism amongst us.

We have encountered no racism at all, not a single member of my family has, including my immigrant side. I'm not doubting there are racist attacks and odd things going on, but I truly believe a lot of the talk is just hysteria due to the remain side losing the vote. I would have voted to remain, but what's done is done now, I think we should just get on with it.