So Leavers what happens Friday if you win? What's the plan Stan?

[Showmethewaytogohome]

Hello...My name is Showme..and I am a remainer

But I am also pragmatic, and a planner. My concern is the Leave campaign has no Plan. At all. Nadda

For me with objectives you have assumption oh and plans. I see an awful lot of we will be x better off, there will be x less of blah blah. But how?

So they win. And on Friday what? Day zero?

Merry excellent point - thank you

Sorry to divert if this has already been discussed, but the first thing that would happen this Friday if we voted to leave would be an instant market crash. That means the pound is worth less so anything from abroad is more expensive (eg summer holiday). Also that UK companies are worth less so they cancel expansion plans and start laying people off.

The financial press is full of this - the Bank of England and many big companies are doing last minute contingency plans.
uk.businessinsider.com/george-soros-brexit-black-wednesday-warning-2016-6?r=US&IR=T

Beaky no we have't discussed that thank you

Yes that will be the immediate affect - will also impact pension, ISA's etc. The cost to our country will be enormous - and that is just the short sharp shock. After that who knows

But the amazing gains that leave claim to be able to give us can not be delivered. Can not be realised. They have not been assessed. They will not be led.

So the alternative is to look at the views that have been expressed around the world by leaders, economists, historians etc - These are that if we Leave it will bring negatives not positives to our country - across the board

Business has been saying its not in their interest to leave for the entire campaign, it doesn't sway the out crowd. The CBI and the BCC can say that a majority of their members back staying in and its still derided.

The Tump style Elites vs the People rubbish rhetoric is just that, rhetoric, empty promises made to those hoping for something better but being duped into something else.

small I agree.

When logical discourse is attempted it is often shouted down. Emotive language is used instead

This does not give our country what it needs - the style of politics doesn't and the Leave and crossed fingers doesn't. My fear is mainly for the youth who will vote in droves to remain according to polls) It is their future that we should consider

Empty rhetoric (and leave have it in abundance) works sadly. Some people would rather believe a Daily Mail editorial than an expert.

So whatever happens Friday - I will make a conscious effort to cut logic and reasonability across the bows of rhetoric

It is such a shame that not one person who is planning to vote Leave has managed to answer my concerns when they have been expressed rationally and I hope with logic

However, if anyone doesn't know how they want to vote tomorrow I would ask you to consider my concerns about the Leave campaigns plans and lack of accountability. There really is no plan I'm afraid and that worries me more than the actual action of leaving.

Showmethewaytogohome
Just one more clarification - at no point have a questioned Leavers intelligence.

you posted
Not afflictions (tho might be apt)
as way of an amusing apology

even if the majority vote to leave it doesn't mean that we will.

To answer your question (I still haven't decided yet)

there isn't a plan because there isn't a mandate for one (yet)

Hi Boney How are you. Perhaps after a few slights being addressed towards me I was less than circumspect than I should have been. For that I am happy to apologise

Thanks for going through all my posts so thoroughly - if you need any clarification on the keys issues around planning and accountability I am happy to answer any you have.

In answer to that - there can't be a mandate. The Leave campaign can not give one. Or are you saying there would be one at an election?

Thank you for your kind offer, but I am aware of the issues that the various groups have.

I am also aware of the name calling and general BS that both sides have put forward for this.

As for having a mandate, in the same way that no-one can really say what will happen if we leave, no-one could say whether this government or the next will put forward leaving as a mandate.

The number of possibilities of what could happen if a vote to leave wins is massive and could be used in many ways, not just to leave the EU.

I am still laughing at the idea of Winter's that being outside the EU will enable UK to renationalise the railways. When many other large EU countries have fabulous, intertwined national railways already. So it's it the EU that done that then....

Boney
Completely true that a government could mandate it - and perhaps that would give a better discussion and more information and plans of how it would happen

But the current issue is the referendum and there is no mandate or plan. I'm not sure what you mean by 'not just to leave the EU'

Showmethewaytogohome

It is probable/possible that a low (or even a high) percentage win could be used by the government to bargain for a better deal out of the EU.

It could improve our position, however that is just an opinion.

It is probable/possible that a low (or even a high) percentage win could be used by the government to bargain for a better deal out of the EU.

This is certainly not probable, and probably not even possible at all. Juncker said as much today (or was it yesterday?) - the negotiations were done before the referendum. In any case, concessions above and beyond those that have already been made would be likely to require treaty change, a long process that would be subject to referendums in a number of countries including the UK.

Mistigri

What politicians say and what they do are often different things.

Its not as if a politician hasn't done a U turn before.

Boney that's certainly true, but the bigger problem is that further concessions would probably require changes to EU treaties and that would be a process measured in decades.

Mistigri

Yes it would take time, bu I suspect that a lot of leavers would be happy to remain if they could see changes in EU policy.

The number of possibilities of what could happen if a vote to leave wins is massive and could be used in many ways

This is just one of the reasons I'm voting Remain. Leave would be political chaos, and since all the Leavers want completely different things, things would turn ugly very quickly - and even if a compromise could be reached, no one would be happy with it.

Let's put an end to this madness fgs!

Indeed, there is no plan and no way of reaching agreement among Leavers. The people have have been told that Europe is some sort of bogeyman and the cause of all their problems. Which of course, it isn't.

When the economy suffers, it is those at the bottom who suffer most. They are the ones who lose their jobs, who depend on public services which will be slashed to the bone.

Johnson is such an opportunist, I would not be surprised if he ticks remain in the privacy of the ballot box.

I really really can't see leave winning

I sincerely hope you're right magic, but unfortunately I can see it happening. The country is a mess, all those people who've been abandoned and left to rot for years under neoliberalism are rightly angry and want change at any cost. I think they'll just get kicked harder if we leave of course.

Someone just put this link up on another thread - wish we could post it up at every polling station! www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/20/brexit-fake-revolt-eu-working-class-culture-hijacked-help-elite

I don't think the Remain camp have a clear view of where the EU will be in 5 years time, so why expect Leave to have a crystal ball? If you vote remain you are not voting for the status quo, and if we move to a two tier Europe with non EZ countries on the periphery as has been mooted, then why not just leave now? Have there been plans laid for the accession of Albania, Kosovo, Serbia etc? What about the Greek crisis that is still rumbling around, an example of EU can-kicking at its worst?

I fundamentally disagree with the direction of travel - I think any opt-outs will be overridden eventually and there will be a drive for a fully federal Europe which will cause massive issues, especially with the Visegrad group.

I also think there is a massive disconnect between the governed and the governing, more than I have ever seen certainly, and that this will come back and bite the elites in the arse. I had hoped that the very real threat of Brexit might burst the Berlaymont Bubble, and make them see that reform is needed, but evidently not.

I expect EU central will have the day off tomorrow. Yet another strike has been called in Belgium, and it's a general one, so nothing will be moving, especially the traffic!

I think the most sensible decision for an undecided is to look at the facts of whether lies/ommissions/obfuscation have happened in the past. Have some of our rights of self determination been passed to a higher authority (the Commission and EU Court) that we cannot dismiss by election?
Has all this happened, despite not one single UK person voting for anything other than a "trading area".

Answer is most certainly yes.

Therefore should we continue to believe a Commission that has given Cameron nothing and threatens us? I'd say not, but half the country clearly feel the opposite.

Only a quarter of the UK voted for a Tory government in 2015 but we got one all the same. Despite that total lack of democracy, I didn't hear anyone calling to rip up the entire system.

In the UK we generally like to think carefully about the consequences of things and make decisions gradually. Throwing a hissy fit and storming out when we don't get our way is not very British.

Beaky what makes you think that many of us haven't been thinking carefully and making decisions gradually about this for some time now?

I certainly have over the last decade that I've lived in Brussels.