Is anybody else gutted about the shooting of Jo Cox - For democracy, for her family and for the progress that women have made in society?

[ipsogenix]

I'm dumbfounded at what's happened to Joe Cox. It's so wrong on so many levels.

You can have democratic debate that doesn't seek to demonise or dehumanise the opposition, debate that doesn't encourage violence in word or deed.

helmet www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lee-rigby-murderer-adebowale-is-borderline-schizophrenic-recommended-for-broadmoor-9015617.html

Would we be having this conversation if he was Muslim and had shouted "Allah"?

I don't think it's true that we look to excuse white people and not other groups. Some media outlets with an agenda might, but I don't think the general public does.

Nah I disagree with him.

It's not democracy to be able to abuse our representatives just because we fancy it.

She was getting death threats, other MPs have, 80 % of MPs have suffered aggressive behaviour.

It will do nothing for 'democracy' if we go back to just rich old men in parliament because everyone else is too worried about their young families safety to speak up.

Democracy isn't about having polite debate politics isn't nice at times by allowing free speech (without inticing hate) and that at times can be a fine line but it's preferable to the alternative

Anyone in politics being threatened is nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with the complexities of human behaviour

Re. Lee Rigby - They can have significant health issues and be islamic terrorists, can't they?

I mean arguably, anyone who does something so horrendous has significant mental health issues - but it doesn't mean they are NOT politically motivated.

The guy who recently attacked people in a train station was, presumably, 'not well' but does that mean we should ignore the fact that he was shouting that he was doing it for Syria?

helmet yes but we should then apply the same logic to this guy, who was a paid up neo-nazi and generally it hasn't been done. See differences between front pages of the sun etc

www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

Plus politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/two-witnesses-heard-the-murderer-of-jo-cox-shout-britain-first-heres-what-they-said/

I just don't understand how anyone can claim that the debate has not been nasty, with people being called quislings or traitors or indeed that awful poster from UKIP the other day about 'breaking point',...

I mean, look at this:

I agree with the LBC guy: www.lbc.co.uk/jamess-monologue-on-jo-cox-is-a-must-listen-132384
Speaking on his LBC show, James said the way that the insidious creep of hatred within politics has led to this moment.

He said: "Is it even vaguely possible that a man living in Britain today could be pushed to the brink of murder by political debate and the political situation?

"I don't care where you come from, I don't care who you vote for. Can you conceive of circumstances in which somebody living in Britain today could be pushed to a point where they contemplate this sort of conduct.

"I'm afraid to tell you that I can.

"If I was to be reading my newspaper every single morning and be told that my very existance was under siege from people I've never met and never seen but keep getting told are coming here in their hoardes.

"If I was to open my newspaper or turn on my radio or TV to hear that everybody who is coming here is a rapist and they've got their eyes on our women and we've got no chance whatsoever of protecting ourselves.

"And unless we do this or do that, or treat them like this or treat them like that, then we're all doomed, we're all going to hell in a handcart.

"If I was being told it's time to reclaim our country every time I got out of bed in the morning, I'd begin to believe it, I think, if I didn't have the knowledge and the insights and the education to know that it is not true.

"We want our country back from whom? We want our country back from when?"

the insidious creep of hatred within politics has led to this moment

But we don't know that it has.

I understand what NearlyHelloKitty means because this is how I feel about my son going into school every day when I hear all these scare stories about how awful the SATs are. I feel bad about making him go to school when there is this invisible nastiness in the school that so many people are afraid of. It's exactly the same situation, and I do think it's a problem.

I do agree though that we don't really know why this man Killed Joe Cox. From that point of view I just feel its terribly sad that women cannot enter politics and feel safe.

So the dude is a neo nazi and she's a proud idealist standing up for refugees and strong views on immigration... he was lying in wait for her with a gun he assembled following instructions from a US white supremacist group.

Perhaps I'll be proved wrong but I doubt it.

From that point of view I just feel its terribly sad that women cannot enter politics and feel safe.

The last MP that was seriously injured and left fighting for his life was Stephen Timms MP in 2010 who was actually in his constituency surgery.

The safety of MPs isn't really a gender issue.

On recent years there has been an increase of attacks and threats towards MPs.

Security needs to be looked at.

ipso please tell your son to stop worrying about SATS. They're a measure of how well the school is doing its job, that's all. When he gets into Y7 he'll be streamed according to his abilities then, nobody will do more than glance at his SATS results from six months beforehand.

Not sure whether Jo Cox being a woman is a factor. Male MPs have been attacked and even murdered before. But maybe this attacker is a woman-hater too. There are plenty of them about, unfortunately

Security needs to be looked at.

But it's not just security is it? We need to take a serious look at the way people are being whipped up into such a frenzy of hate. There are an awful lot of.people acting in a pretty fucked up way, which has somehow become acceptable .

We simply can't answer would this have happened if the referendum wasn't taking place

We know that people who are often isolated or feel dispossessed these radical extreme groups can be appealing, more often men joining than women the appeal of these groups is again complex because people are. Being part of something, the camaraderie, others sharing your views, being listened to and accepted (I believe that's a huge part of the issue).

Can we protect those who maybe more easily influenced than others no not unless we totally control their lives

Can we close down debate that may increase feelings of anger that some may feel that tells them they should act on no because we live in a democracy

I think the politicians have an enormous role to play though in what they deem acceptable..

I do think we need people on both sides to stand up and challenge vitriol.

We simply can't answer would this have happened if the referendum wasn't taking place

Especially as the book that was mentioned above he allegedly bought in the 1990s so over 15 years ago.

Nearly HelloKitty - I think you're correct in your description. You need to add one sentence which is also factually accurate according to his family " he had a long history of mental illness".

Let the police do their work and let's not play politics with this.

I initially saw it more as a reflection of the dire state of mental health services in the uk now. Until further evidence i dont see it as an attack on democracy or the safety of women or their progress. The last mp murdered was male. I agree the media rushes to play the 'terrorist' card when it involves a muslim element but plays it as a 'mental health issue' when the crime appears to have no connection with islam. I think the truth is often more 'mental health issue' once further investigated tbh. Not always but often.

It is truly terrible, but why is this post in the E.U referendum thread?

She was a prominent remain MEP with an unapologetic stance on immigration etc.

There's been a very nasty and vitriolic debate around immigration in the EU referendum, with remain campaigners called traitors, quislings etc.

You should be ashamed of yourself Kitty. Trying to make politcal gain for the remain campaign out of this terrible tragic killing. Ashamed!

She was a prominent remain MEP with an unapologetic stance on immigration etc.

She was an MP.

There's been a very nasty and vitriolic debate around immigration in the EU referendum, with remain campaigners called traitors, quislings etc

And leave campaigners called extremely nasty things too.

How about you stop cheap point scoring.