Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Those were just illustrative numbers. The point is, if the wage bill goes up, it puts the price of goods and services up. It puts our shopping bills up. If it makes those goods and services uncompetitive, businesses will look at how to reduce the wage bill by employing fewer people - either by getting people to do more in the same time, sending jobs overseas (like James Dyson has, for example), or replacing people with machines (as in banks and supermarkets).

£10 an hour is higher than the minimum wage of £7.20 an hour (for over 25's) and the minimum wage is what many many people are on

It's a significant increase of £100 a week of you are working 35 hours a week (before tax) £400 a month

I think drivers do generally get one step up from NMW Enthuiasm. Carers are hideously underpaid. Historical gender division, in part.

But my point (that UK workers only want legal pay and conditions not lavish rates) still works for fruit pickers; so farmers who currently manage to pay sub-NMW to foreign workers, would probably have to pay NMW and modest breaks to UK workers. That's doable. It won't break the bank.

to be fair, it is an issue that no one on the Remain side, including Labour, is prepared to give the low-paid British workers a solution to their problem. They're just saying it will get worse if Britain leaves, which is true but hardly inspiring.

so Brexit win those votes on the sole basis that they actually do have an answer and a proposal to improve things, even though their answer is wrong and will not actually improve anything.

You can try and try to imply that all Brexiters are Farage fans/enthusiasts/sympathisers/clones Mother but it simply isn't true.

I'm coming at this from a leftwing/feminist angle.

to be fair, it is an issue that no one on the Remain side, including Labour, is prepared to give the low-paid British workers a solution to their problem. They're just saying it will get worse if Britain leaves, which is true but hardly inspiring.

Damn right.

Just5mins could you make the feminist case for Brexit please?

I'm genuinely interested

And the other refrain of the Remainers, in response to many points has been 'we could change that /legislate for that' be it employment issues, Trident or a dozen other things. But we can all see that that hasn't happened, isn't happening and won't happen.

Whereas various aspects of Brexit would bring immediate relief to a great many issues and the downsides are either not known, likely to be transient, or are largely only negative for the top income decile.

This is essentially contents versus malcontents. Some people can see we're in deep trouble, some people can't. You won't appease the people who CAN see the mess we're in by promising more of the same if they give you their vote.

That women are disproportionately low-paid, that women are disproportionately single parents. That we have the worst possible combination of expensive housing, expensive childcare and depressed wages now which EU membership has variously not helped with or exacerbated and women are disproportionately impacted.

I agree Just5 mins - this has been the problem with the debate the whole way along - lazy stereotypes and assumptions that it is a tory infight - no, it is a national referendum with lots of people voting would have never and never would vote either tory or UKIP

Quite.

Brexit might finally force a rethink on education and training after 30+ years of neglect, BUT even if that takes a while, there'll be an immediate easing in the oversupply of competition for the lower-skilled jobs, so at least work will be easier to get, they will gain some kind of experience, employers might start training slightly more and so on.

Do you think so? Or do you think that for any job that requires even a minimally above-baseline level of skills and experience, they will go through the domestic labour market test, say they can't find anyone, then employ from abroad anyway if that's cheaper?

And with governments under pressure from their corporate donors to help keep their costs down in the environment of a more expensive post-Brexit trading environment, what do you think they'll do.

Yes I do think so Jassy.

If any UK company starts employing NMW workers, or even sub-£15ph workers on visas, I'll buy you an extravagant dinner.

well there's still no room for xenophobia! i've seen a lot of posters talk about rising attacks against EU immigrants - not necessarily physical but a lot of 'go home' type comments

I thought it was obvious that I was pointing out that Bremainers like to cast Brexiters as xenophobic, not that there's room for xenophobia in the UK.

Who of the Bremainers would like to see the UK with a population of 80 million?

As in, recruiting from overseas, via the visa route.

Do you think so? Or do you think that for any job that requires even a minimally above-baseline level of skills and experience, they will go through the domestic labour market test, say they can't find anyone, then employ from abroad anyway if that's cheaper?

And with governments under pressure from their corporate donors to help keep their costs down in the environment of a more expensive post-Brexit trading environment, what do you think they'll do.

I noticed upthread a bit that you like to use terms like economically illiterate. Now we're supposed to agree with you that in the face of a shorter supply of labour, the government will conspire with its corporate cronies and to import cheap labour under a visa scheme for Poundland?

I'm under no illusions about the cosy relationships, but I don't think they can defy the laws of supply and demand.

Harriet harman doesnt even know the names of the EU presidents laughing so hard the IN voters now if that who they chose to represent them im already party planning for when Brexit wins by a landslide

Harriet Harman is too busy keeping up with the Kardashians to keep up with the EU.

the entire IN party is built on lies and myths and old promises though, i cant believe they got this far with so few votes

there'll be an immediate easing in the oversupply of competition for the lower-skilled jobs

not if there are fewer jobs to go around

lily whereas Leave is built on great facts like the 350 million

If any UK company starts employing NMW workers, or even sub-£15ph workers on visas, I'll buy you an extravagant dinner

I wasn't talking about NMW really - rather those jobs where an argument can be made that it's cheaper (and faster) to import a skill than train someone in it locally, which will be a particular issue in any recession.

I'm sure there are are many nurses, midwives, social workers, high integrity pipe welders, cable fitters, radiologists, computer animators and other current Tier 2 shortage occupations where the minimum acceptable salary to qualify for Tier 2 is well under £15/hour who'd love that kind of pay rise.

I've been meaning to try the Ledbury for a while.

I'm under no illusions about the cosy relationships, but I don't think they can defy the laws of supply and demand

This assumes that all low paid jobs are in the private sector, where you might reasonably assume that one possible response to a lower supply of labour is to increase wages (there are of course other equally possible responses: move your operations elsewhere, increase automation, or simply close your business because it is no longer viable).

Many low wage jobs are in the publicly funded sector - carers are a good example of this. Supply and demand simply doesn't operate here, since there is a fixed amount of money available. The only option here is to reduce recruitment and restrict demand by making access to care more difficult.