Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

This country will truly go to hell in a hand cart if we leave the EU. Brexiters are listening to elite public school boys like Farage and Johnson!!! Why listen to people who are ruthless, selfish and who would dismiss you with a laugh as a stupid chav?
Do you think this government with 4 years to run will support the NHS, farmers, workers, the poor? The money we lose in industry-specific EU subsidies will not be replaced by the money we save in EU membership fees- that money will disappear into a black hole never to be seen again.
Do you think immigration will stop when we still need to trade with Europe? We need to work on our relationship with Europe from within the EU, not dismantle our closest customer base.
Frightening times!

It will happen Mother, when the supply of easily-exploitable rock-bottom EU workers gets cut off.

This country will truly go to hell in a hand cart if we leave the EU. Brexiters are listening to elite public school boys like Farage and Johnson!!! Why listen to people who are ruthless, selfish and who would dismiss you with a laugh as a stupid chav?

Nothing like a bit of stereotyping is there....

Brexiters are listening to elite public school boys like Farage and Johnson

Remainers are listening to elite public schoolboys like Cameron, Osborne etc etc etc.

It's not "a few pence on the price of strawberries", though. It's potentially a substantial increase in the wage bill that pushes up the shopping bill of every family in the UK, makes UK businesses uncompetitive - some will go bust, some will move overseas, and many more will look to cut their wage bills through automation.

The majority of the cost of childcare is wages. Just the increase in the minimum wage has nursery owners putting up bills to parents and suggesting they could go bust. If nurseries had to pay £12 an hour because there's an under supply of people, that's a significant hit to a family budget.

It's all well and good saying "we can put up with some short term pain" but the reality is this could cause real hardship for families for many years:

NOBODY should work in those conditions. Most companies can easily afford to treat their employees with basic decency.

The small number that can't or won't SHOULD go to the wall.

But they won't because we love to buy cheap tat from them. And so it continues. Even when they are hauled in front of a parliamentary committee to explain themselves. If the consumer was more selective in what it is buying then maybe, but ultimately we want to buy everything as cheaply as possible, and there is a price to pay for that. Namely zero hours contracts and often slightly less than minumum wage once you factor in time to be searched when leaving the premises.
This won't change on Brexit, except maybe that we will be forcing unemployed or disabled into these jobs.

If the current tide of migrants were to be replaced by the UK unemployed citizenry, I'd say that's a Brexit victory - is it not? (I'll ignore the hysterical point about disabled people being forced into work).

Surely Brexiters win the day on saying no to cheap goods. A central Brexiter argument is that wages will be forced up - I'm sure a few of them are clever enough to realise that higher wages = higher prices at the till?

It's not "a few pence on the price of strawberries", though. It's potentially a substantial increase in the wage bill that pushes up the shopping bill of every family in the UK, makes UK businesses uncompetitive - some will go bust, some will move overseas, and many more will look to cut their wage bills through automation.

Providing basic but minimally acceptable working conditions makes UK businesses uncompetitive? So your argument is that we can't afford NOT to treat people like oxen? That's a repugnant argument and I don't think it's even correct.

90% of the time it is the share price that benefits when bottom rung workers are exploited. Fat share dividends are not essential to a business's viability.

It's all well and good saying "we can put up with some short term pain" but the reality is this could cause real hardship for families for many years:

Spare a thought for the terminally low-paid workers of the UK. Wages are depressed by the influx of migrant labour. We've all freeloaded off the cheap goods in the UK for years, time to pay a living wage.

I travel to Japan every now and then for work. Japan has a rapidly aging population and a massive antipathy to immigration. The result is that a dwindling number of working-age people are supporting a growing number of aging pensioners.

This hasn't created a wealth of opportunities for low-skilled people as wages have gone up. Instead, the Japanese have automated as many jobs as possible. If you go to restaurants, you order your food from a machine because waitresses are too expensive.

I absolutely agree businesses shouldn't be paying rock-bottom wages subsidised by the taxpayer. But in a globalised world where technology is developing rapidly, we're kidding ourselves if we think Brexit will create a world of opportunities for the low-skilled. It won't; pushing up wage bills will encourage businesses to look at ways to cut the number of people they need to deliver their product or service.

We're probably only a couple of years from having self-driving cars. Amazon are looking seriously at using drones for deliveries. If they can't employ Poles at £10/hr anymore, will they spend £15/hr attracting Brits to become delivery drivers, or will they find ways to avoid using humans at all?

Spare a thought for the terminally low-paid workers of the UK. Wages are depressed by the influx of migrant labour.

Absolutely, half the country need rescuing from this mess. Most of the privileged other half are determined to patronise/libel/ belittle them for having a better grasp of the real politik.

Technological gains always have and always will put people out of work, it's part of the natural slack of the economy that allows us to redeploy people as we evolve.

We are a long way off from driverless cars replacing taxis, if that's what you're implying.

We're probably only a couple of years from having self-driving cars. Amazon are looking seriously at using drones for deliveries. If they can't employ Poles at £10/hr anymore, will they spend £15/hr attracting Brits to become delivery drivers, or will they find ways to avoid using humans at all?

I think Brits would work for £10ph. The difference is that most of them will expect bladder autonomy, the right to unionise and time and a half on Sundays. Which is fair enough.

If a business cannot pay a living wage, it should not be subsidised by the UK taxpayer or human misery. Let them go under, human ingenuity will prevail.

MrsBlackthorn Actually that's an interesting point anyways. The era of AI and robots is not far away and likely the only solution to avoid massive poverty and unrest will be a universal basic income.
See e.g. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-to-consider-introducing-universal-basic-income-in-2017-a6963321.html
and : www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-basic-income-british-parliament-to-consider-motion-uk-a6823211.html

Not sure what that has to do with the price of fish!

We're not that great off. Driverless cars will be on the roads in five years; taxi firms are expected to be the first to use them.

www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=384

With firms worried about whether they will be able to hire, and concerned about the impact of tarrifs on their competitiveness, Brexit will almost certainly accelerate their plans to reduce the need for people in their businesses.

I am nodding along with just5min.

I had an exchange with some poster a month or so back who said something like: There's no room for xenophobia in Britain in 2016! I have a Polish cleaner, an Albanian electrician, a Romanian gardener! You should all consider being a bit more enlightened!

There are still major issues with driverless cars with no resolution in sight. For example, rain.

well there's still no room for xenophobia! i've seen a lot of posters talk about rising attacks against EU immigrants - not necessarily physical but a lot of 'go home' type comments

Of course there are. But drivers are only one way in which businesses are avoiding employing people. When you book a ticket, do you do it online, or go to a box office? Do you use self checkouts at the supermarket? Etc.

If we want to avoid inter generational conflict and widespread unrest in the future we need to accept there simply won't be that many opportunities for low skilled people in the future - British or otherwise. There are some things that can't be automated (caring, cleaning) but many which can. We should be creating as many opportunities for our young people to gain skills and take up higher-paying jobs, not fighting over the dwindling number of unskilled jobs there are.

£10 an hour is higher than the minimum wage of £7.20 an hour (for over 25's) and the minimum wage is what many many people are on

It's a significant increase of £100 a week of you are working 35 hours a week (before tax) £400 a month

Even in London working in care/mental health support many are not earning £10 an hour

There's no room for xenophobia in Britain in 2016! I have a Polish cleaner, an Albanian electrician, a Romanian gardener! You should all consider being a bit more enlightened!