Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

baby, that 38% is represented by this Tory govt promising this referendum in order to lure them away from UKIP and get into govt.

There is a heck of a lot of traditional Labour voters in that 38%.

There are plenty of Labour voters for Brexit.

I noticed John Cleese tweeting for Brexit and he is a celebrity Lib Dem. ( Is he the only one they have?!)

The "prioritising EU other migrants" stuff is a wonderfully twisted piece of logic from the Leavers.

Right now, if you want to bring over an immigrant on a skilled visa from elsewhere in the world, you have to show that you weren't able to show that you weren't able to find someone with those skills in the EU (including the UK). Leaving the EU will just vastly reduce the available pool of people employers can look to get in without going through this. Every time an employer does this it costs thousands of pounds and takes months.

Right now, if you want to bring over an immigrant on a skilled visa from elsewhere in the world, you have to show that you weren't able to show that you weren't able to find someone with those skills in the EU (including the UK). Leaving the EU will just vastly reduce the available pool of people employers can look to get in without going through this

Maybe it could be relaxed a bit but quite honestly, if training options and funding are improved in this country as a result (to meet the demand) then that's a good thing. I only recently realised how dire vocational training routes are in this country, we have a real skills gap.

I heard on this morning's Today programme that 60% of EU migrants into the UK come to do low paid, low skill work. I hadn't realised it was quite that high. It's madness and it's cruel. All those people hoping to work their way up in the land of promise, but all it creates is hardship and wage deflation for the whole low-pay sector.

"I heard on this morning's Today programme that 60% of EU migrants into the UK come to do low paid, low skill work"

And I do wonder who is going to work on our farms or in our factories once the Eastern Europeans no longer can.

And I do wonder who is going to work on our farms or in our factories once the Eastern Europeans no longer can.

Why do you wonder that?

Because, bluntly, there's a disconnect between the places where we have high unemployment and the places where the jobs are. Yes, in theory we could make people who are currently on benefits in Wales do seasonal fruit picking work in Lincolnshire, but realistically the wages on those jobs would need to go up A LOT for them to be attractive even to UK unemployed people. That in turn would put the price of fruit up, making it expensive for people to buy and too expensive to export.

The reality is, many of those jobs which low-skilled immigrants do are awful; crap conditions, long hours and barracks-like discipline (eg Sports Direct factories). British people simply will not put up with that and won't take such jobs. There's a strong argument that employers shouldn't offer such poor conditions, but the reality is that the alternative is jobs going abroad, to places with even worse conditions if employers can't/won't absorb the costs without becoming uncompetitive. Or having large numbers of people work illegally, as happens in the US.

And I do wonder who is going to work on our farms or in our factories once the Eastern Europeans no longer can.

One option (and this is only partly tongue in cheek, because similar ideas have been floated by at least one Tory minister) would be to employ pensioners and the disabled at below minimum wage, on the grounds that they wouldn't be as productive :)

Just5: I agree vocational training could and should be better. But this is already within the gift of the UK government to do something about. Inflicting almost guaranteed short term pain on the economy isn't going to make that easier - in fact, experience in past recessions shows repeatedly graduate starter jobs, apprenticeships and traineeships are amongst the hardest hit in the job market - employers stop investing in future talent and focus on weathering the storm.

Mistigri: perhaps our own benefits system will become even more punative and move on from forcing people to work in Poundland for their benefits and instead make them move to the other side of the country and live in dormatories during fruit-picking season.

It doesn't take an enormous leap in policy o public sentiment to make this a reality.

The reality is, many of those jobs which low-skilled immigrants do are awful; crap conditions, long hours and barracks-like discipline (eg Sports Direct factories). British people simply will not put up with that and won't take such jobs

NOBODY should work in those conditions. Most companies can easily afford to treat their employees with basic decency.

The small number that can't or won't SHOULD go to the wall.

Because, bluntly, there's a disconnect between the places where we have high unemployment and the places where the jobs are. Yes, in theory we could make people who are currently on benefits in Wales do seasonal fruit picking work in Lincolnshire, but realistically the wages on those jobs would need to go up A LOT for them to be attractive even to UK unemployed people. That in turn would put the price of fruit up, making it expensive for people to buy and too expensive to export.

There used to be a special class of red-tape-light seasonal-work visa that was predominantly used by fruit pickers from abroad. It worked.

Farmers also used to use local pickers, provide minibuses, allow toddlers to accompany mothers wjo signed up, offer long but not insane hours, and all those sorts of things that made them viable jobs for local workers. Now they just recruit abroad.

Just5: I agree vocational training could and should be better. But this is already within the gift of the UK government to do something about. Inflicting almost guaranteed short term pain on the economy isn't going to make that easier - in fact, experience in past recessions shows repeatedly graduate starter jobs, apprenticeships and traineeships are amongst the hardest hit in the job market - employers stop investing in future talent and focus on weathering the storm.

For the lower-paid and non-graduates I think Brexit is the only hope.

Brexit might finally force a rethink on education and training after 30+ years of neglect, BUT even if that takes a while, there'll be an immediate easing in the oversupply of competition for the lower-skilled jobs, so at least work will be easier to get, they will gain some kind of experience, employers might start training slightly more and so on.

there'll be an immediate easing in the oversupply of competition for the lower-skilled jobs, so at least work will be easier to get,

This is where I think you're completely wrong. When economies shrink, lowest paid jobs are amongst the first to go. Traineeships disappear. Low-skilled people are the least mobile. At least I have the option of moving abroad; people without qualifications will no longer have that option (especially if our reciprocal access to jobs in Europe disappears).

But they won't because we love to buy cheap tat from them

An extra £1 on the price of a pair of trainers, a few pence on a punnet of strawberries is fine by me if it secures a lower unemployment rate and better working conditions for all.

I'm not wealthy enough to not notice prices but we all have too much STUFF anyway.

Maybe a few jobs will be lost short-term MrsB. Maybe.

I don't believe the economic reaction will be dramatic or long lasting. Most importantly, the low-paid EU job-seekers won't still be arriving to compete for those jobs.

Has ToDuk been along with evidence in support of the fact that most highly intelligent people are Bremainers?

I hope you have cushions Apple, you're in for a long wait.