Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

[Limer]

Migrants on the whole tend to go home after a few years; people have an emotional attachment to where they come from, may have aging parents back home, or want to raise their children in their own country. That's why migrants are net contributors to the tax system.

I don't think this is necessarily true of the latest crop from the EU. I know plenty who started off thinking they'd work here temporarily, but have now settled here permanently, set up home, married, had children and in a couple of cases brought their ageing parents over from the EU to live with them. Reasons why - better education, healthcare and job opportunities than back home. I think that's quite a common pattern.

[Just5minswithDacre]

It just goes to show it can be done Honey.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I am not sure many migrants do go home after a few years. I think often the plan is to save money working here and/or send money home but many find the costs of living they do not save as much money as they thought or can send as much money home as they planned to.

The pull return home is often very strong but people get caught up living here, better opportunities, healthcare and education and end up staying much longer than originally planned that eventually here became home

[Mistigri]

I am not sure many migrants do go home after a few years.

In fact in recent years, approximately 100,000 EU immigrants and a similar number of non-EU immigrants have left the UK every year.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Really just quickly googled this can't find anything to support that figure

[Chalalala]

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016#emigration-from-the-uk

figure 12.

(if there's something I'm proud of, it's my googling powers!)

[JassyRadlett]

Was just coming back to say the latest figures are 85,000, and even Migration Watch is using them.

It will be interesting to see whether the post-2012 increase in EU immigration is matched in the coming 5-10 years with a similar emigration graph.

I'm not sure there's any one story. If there are those who sleep 4 to a room and are sending all their wages home as some people say, then those people seem more likely to be here temporarily. Those who've been here longer and have brought their families over may be a different picture (but at that point don't they stop undercutting local wages anyway?)

I was interested to see that only 7% of annual EU immigration to the UK was to join family members.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Ok not the 100k figure I was googling

It still shows that figures are not what the government were predicting and higher than ever expected number of EU immigrants here

I

[Chalalala]

I'm not sure there's any one story.

Definitely not. I certainly don't recognise myself, or any of my EU friends, when I read about us "EU immigrants" on MN or in the press

[AppleSetsSail]

Reducing the world's population is priority number 1. Whatever pain this might cause us in caring for an ageing population or economic stagnation pales in comparison to the pain of the alternative.

Examining declining birth rates and figuring out what we can do to reverse them makes my blood run cold.

[JassyRadlett]

It still shows that figures are not what the government were predicting and higher than ever expected number of EU immigrants here

No one claimed they were - only that the figures show a significant proportion of EU immigrants leaving each year.

[MrsBlackthorn]

The thing we can do to reduce the world population is:

a) make other countries richer

b) send every girl to school. The more time a girl sends in school, the fewer children she has.

But the people campaigning for out are the same ones calling for us to cut the aid we send overseas.

[AppleSetsSail]

I agree with your Mrs.B and I'm not calling out for cuts in overseas aid.

[AppleSetsSail]

To be clear, upthread a bit there was some mention of the UK government trying to boost the domestic birth rate which was the impetus for my comment.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I agree with you on making other countries richer or more importanly wealth is shared out more fairly and educating all the population

I am certainly not calling for aid to be cut overseas but I question where some of it is going and I am voting out

[LeaveTheRoundAbout]

Re the tweet hijacking Orlando

Farage is part of grassroots out which is cross party eg Labour's Kate Hoey


Official campaign is vote Leave - Boris etc

Sorry to disappoint your prejudices re Farage etc but the leave.eu organisation that tweeted today are separate entity.

[nearlyhellokitty]

This rang true from the conversations on here:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-supporters-leave-vote-right
"Try arguing with facts and you get nowhere. Warn these Labour people what a Johnson/Gove government would do and they don’t care. Warn about the loss of workers’ rights and they don’t listen – maybe that’s already irrelevant to millions in crap jobs such as at Uber or Sports Direct. “We’re full up. Sorry, there’s no room for more. Can’t get GP appointments, can’t get into our schools, no housing.” If you tell these Labour voters that’s because of Tory austerity cuts, still they blame “immigrants getting everything first”. Warn about a Brexit recession leading to far worse cuts and they just say, “Stop them coming, make room for our own first.”"

[nearlyhellokitty]

"Every week in Barking the MP Margaret Hodge invites a whole ward for coffee and biscuits to air whatever’s on their minds.

They like her, a well-respected, diligent MP, but they weren’t listening. She demolished the £350m myth, but they clung to it. She told them housing shortages were due to Tory sell-offs and failure to build but a young man protested that he was falling further down the waiting list, with immigrants put first. Barking’s long-time residents come first, she said, but she was not believed. I found just two remainers.

This is the sound of Britain breaking.Here ends our “moderate, tolerant” self-image. Imagine Brexit wins and two years later prime minister Boris Johnson is still embroiled in quarrelsome EU exit talks. These Barking and Nottingham people will see no change, same migrants, same sense of powerlessness. Recession-hit, facing worse cuts, voters won’t blame themselves for their own folly. Old problems are unresolved – an economy reliant on City and property bubbles, low skills, low productivity, atrophied public services, hopes raised and dashed. Gove and Johnson risk losing control of the furies they have unleashed."

[Woodhill]

I don't understand why if we leave that the locals could get priority over social housing. I think this always should have been the case anyway.

[MrsBlackthorn]

It is the case, with the exception of refugees. The problem is people don't perceive it that way - the fact is, there just aren't many council homes left. People see foreign families moving into their estates and come to the conclusion the council has put them there. But in all likelihood they're renting it from a private landlord - in many places almost all right-to-buy council flats are now rented out.

[Chalalala]

I read that article nearlyhellokitty, it did ring true. Maybe a tad exaggerating the threat of a nationalistic populist government, but broadly right that Brexit will only increase the feelings of frustration and intolerance.

also read in the Guardian yesterday about this Labour campaigner saying that the campaign felt exactly like the last GE - the polls somewhat reassuring, yet when they go knock on doors they get told to "fuck off" by their own voters.

I think Remain are going to lose this. And frankly it terrifies me.

[nearlyhellokitty]

yep agree with you Chalalala that it extrapolates pretty far but covers the broad lines!

[Motheroffourdragons]

No Chalalala (is that the right no of la s)

I am confident that Remain will win, sense will prevail.

Bookies odds are in favour of staying, and opinion polls are a dead heat with a huge number saying 'don't know'. This is the same as the GE and the Scottish indyref.

[purits]

Vote Leave!

Do I win the 1,000 post prize?