Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

If I vote Leave, I'm effectively sending my friends their P45s and inflicting a massive blow to the town I used to live in. If we leave the three large manufacturing plants will close and relocate 20 miles down road, across the border.

Hardest hit by Brexit

What whenthey have their wage already topped up by benefits

When wages and full benefits are not that much different

When they are on zero hour contracts and constantly worrying about work they will get

Yes let's stay and make sure this carries on as its so much better than the alternative of .... We don't know but there may be room for improvement and taking that chance is worth it to many

A recession is not going to make any of that better - quite the opposite.

enthusiam - yep because it's always the poor who get the worst deal when there's insecurity. i think there'd be a situation with even fewer jobs available.

It doesn't get much worse than working full time and having fuck all once everything is paid for and being no better off than being unemployed

People are barely making ends meet yet those earning 100k a year are growing in numbers

Many at the bottom don't fear a few hard years but they do fear nothing ever changing because that's the situation many are in now

Roses has a very good point about the true impact of EU migration.

Take the example of the Romanian family who were on the TV a couple of weeks ago. Extreme example, I know, but they are real and their story really happened. Mother & father, with barely any English, no skills, no qualifications. Five school-age children. Their impact is having been allocated a 4-bed house, on full benefits, with school places for five, and possible NHS usage (all were healthy though).

Think of the knock-on effects - who were the family that lost out on that 4-bed house? What about the existing pupils at their new schools, suffering the disruption of new arrivals speaking no English? Extra support such as translators/teaching assistants for the family & children when dealing with the authorities? What about if one of the children needed glasses? One of them taken ill and needed the doctor, or had to visit A&E? These are the impacts that affect real people, day in, day out, but for which there are no statistics.

I know that for every family like this, there are probably a dozen young single EU migrants working hard and making no demands on any public services. But what about the UK jobseekers they beat to their jobs? And the costs associated with keeping those UK jobseekers sitting idle?

enthusiasm - a worse situation is the breakdown of key sectors like Dione highlighted and digging the uk deeper into a recession/ embedding structurally a lack of jobs.

That might be short term

investment will come back into the country, we might have a situation where low paid workers receive better pay as employers have to pay them higher as less low paid workers around

The same for the construction industry

People know that it's uncertain but regardless it's worth that gamble staying with what we have and nothing changing is a depressing reality

The decline of manufacturing in the 80's and then neglect by governments has led to ingrained poverty/structural problems that have now become generational. This was long before the expansion of the EU. Alot of these places will have very few migrants as migrants go where there are jobs.

This article is interesting www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/sunderland-how-labour-city-became-one-of-the-uks-most-eurosceptic

“I live here, I work here, I pay taxes. All these people coming, what are they going to do? What benefit are they going to bring?” The man may hold a majority view in Sunderland but he is in a tiny minority in demographic terms. Just 3.6% of Sunderland’s population was foreign born, according to the 2011 census, compared with 11.5% nationally.

investment will come back into the country, we might have a situation where low paid workers receive better pay as employers have to pay them higher as less low paid workers around

No. Businesses British or otherwise will go overseas if labour is cheaper. Phone your local bank - speak to a guy in India. Buy clothing off the British high street - made in far east. There will be more people fighting for low paid work that cannot be outsourced - care work, supermarkets etc.

the investment "will come back"? Why? and When?

An analysis I read highlighted that a key reason for investment in the UK by many companies is the access to the Single Market, - and then English, skills, regulation framework etc.

Limer, I totally agree. Why should the UK have to take that family. Also I suspect there are more like them who are not necessarily Migrants from the EU.

It should have been as the Sunderland man was quoted what can they do for the UK not what the UK can do for them. I think if immigration had been more like the former option since 1997 things would not look so dismal.

Again it's dismissing his experience and many others

how are we meant to take these reports seriously when the government (and i include labour) underestimated figures constantly as we saw with the news immigration figures recently and yes
I know not all were EU

Reading reports and figures in the area I work in and what we see at work just doesn't match up which seems often to be the case

With 3 million jobs set to be lost if we Brexit

[[http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/Briefing_1502_The%20EU%20Jobs%20Myth_web.pdf The EU Jobs Myth
Why 3 or 4 million jobs are not ‘dependent on our membership of the EU’]]

"It is wrong to claim or imply that 3-4.2 million jobs are ‘dependent’ on our membership on the European Union. Whilst it is true that the number of jobs associated directly with exports to EU consumers and indirectly with the income these generate is of this magnitude, these arise because of trade not membership of the EU. There is no evidence to suggest that trade would substantially fall between British businesses and European businesses and consumers if the UK was outside the EU"

"In order to claim that all 3-4.2 million jobs associated with trade with EU companies and individuals are ‘dependent on the EU’, it has to be assumed that leaving the EU would lead to a complete ceasing of trade (such that the UK no longer exports to EU countries); that goods and services previously imported from the EU would not be produced domestically; that trade would not increase with the rest of the world; and that the labour market is incapable of creating new jobs to replace lost jobs. These assumptions are absurd."

Just 3.6% of Sunderland’s population was foreign born, according to the 2011 census, compared with 11.5% nationally.

2011 was an awful long time ago, in EU migration terms. Millions more have arrived since then.

www.frankfield.co.uk/latest-news/articles/news.aspx?p=1021270

This guy must be talking out of his arse then

Field has campaigned against poverty and low pay throughout his career, proposing various welfare reforms over the years.[1] In June 2015 Field was elected Chair of the Work and Pensions Select Committee

Campaigning all that time but clearly according to some knows jack shit about poverty. His father was a labourer in Morgan Crucible's factory in Battersea and his mother was a teaching assistant.

In June 2010 he was appointed by David Cameron's coalition government to head an independent review into poverty,[13] which proposed adopting a new measure centred around life-chance indicators and increasing funding for early years education

ummmmm. He says:

But compassion demands that we consider as a priority the impact that so many new arrivals has on our poorest citizens’ chances of securing the ever scarcer necessities in life — a place at a decent school for their children, a home that they can afford to rent or buy, and swift access to healthcare.

A lethal combination, since 2010, of public-expenditure cuts and unrestricted immigration from the EU has already diminished our poorest citizens’ choices in this regard. Remaining in the EU will, I fear, bring a continued erosion in their living standards.

But our op feels differently.

Limer your right there are no stats for that but Panorma highlighted some issues many years ago in relation to Slough a town just outside London that took a huge hit. Meals on wheels were pulled by the council to provide for the new comers and other services like that.

The plants I am talking about will not come back. Our EU membership is so important to the parent company that they will relocate if we leave. When I worked there I was in charge of an accounts payable dept. of one site,that paid out around £2.5 million each month. My friends will lose their livelihoods, spending in the town will plummet and the UK will lose income from taxes.

Whatever the future brings, this relocation is a certainty if we leave, so I will be voting to remain.

Meals on wheels were pulled by the council to provide for the new comers and other services like that.

Classic divide and conquer. Set one group of poor people against the other.

Why are the newcomers always more important.

I think I remember seeing that Roses Lots of pregnant Roma teenagers needing housing and services.

What else could the council have done, Ghost ? They presumably held a meeting and voted for what to do. Cut another service or raise council tax? Councils are democratically elected (well, there are a few vote-rigging scandals to be fair).

Remember the government bleating that immigrants didn't have priority with social housing. Right.

A governments responsibility should be to its most vulnerable. Unfortunately the poor are vilified and portrayed as scroungers. This is one of the richest nations on earth there is enough money to go around.

During UK elections the benefit scrounger narrative is always wheeled out and it works. Look at the welfare cuts the Tories have made - with a "democratic" mandate to do so.

Now the same people are feigning concern for the poor of Britain and pointing the finger at migrants. Its the same dog whistle tactic. The people at the bottom are apparently always responsible for societies woes.

Gove and Johnson talking about investing in public services is laughable.

So how does it help matters allowing millions more even poorer EU citizens to live here?

It doesn't. Just makes everywhere more crowded, services stretched, more deficit. Harder for people who have waited patiently on a council housing list who are effectively being usurped by people who imo shouldn't be allowed here in the first place.