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Brexit

Anyone else really worried now?

999 replies

MrsBlackthorn · 07/06/2016 23:01

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

OP posts:
nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 00:47

Urgh I just read the Webchat questions for andrea leadsome. I think we need some really proper questions come on guys.

And whoever wrote that weird rambling one about the three witches - thats really not ok. Sexist shaming or what

SpringingIntoAction · 12/06/2016 00:54

And control of out armed forces is never going to be passed to Brussels or Germany. That I'm afraid is classic leave scaremongering.

I remember Heath telling us that the EU would never overrule laws made by our democratically elected Government. It now does.

I expect that if you'd told people that their right of habeas corpus, that had existed for centuries under English law, would be signed away by Theresa May when she accepted the European Arrest Warrant, they would gasp at you in disbelief.

I expect people would be amazed if you told them the EU would be stopping us deporting EU citizens at the end of the jail sentnces.

I expect people would be amazed if you told them that the UK would be hit with surprise 'one-off demands' for £1.6 million from the EU - which did happen and which we did pay.

And Cameron says Turkey will not join for 30 years, but the EU made Turkish an EU language last months and the ECJ has ruled that we must pay unemployment benefit to Turks and now we discover that there were negotiations between the UK and Turkey over the decision made by Merkel to offer visa-free access.

I am sorry folks but the 'Move along, nothing to see here' approach (or gaslighting as it's ore accurately termed) is just not cutting it any more. We are sleepwalking into a European Superstate while being reassured that it is not happening.

But unfortunately for those at the top, we are gradually waking up to wat is being done to us.

So, don't ever discount anything as 'that can't happen' or 'we won't accept that' because when you hand power over yourselves to a body like the EU do not be surprised if they use that power against you. They may coerce, or bribe or even deny you the levers of administering your country, as they could when they have overall control of the tax systems. You won't even notice it's happening.
An EU Army is quite feasible. Junckers wants it to 'enforce EU foreign policy'. These words should chill you to the core.And don't dismiss this as fear-mongering, consider it as the use of knowledge about the EU's activities and plan to work put the direction of travel - and not to like the way it's going.

The real security threat we're facing is isolation in a world with a resurgent and aggressive Russia (who has been clearly documented funding anti EU efforts ) and where we need better communication withsecurity forces across Europe to counter terrorism.

You really have bought the lie here that Putin is the bad guy.

The EU is an empire. All empires must expand. The EU will run out of near neighbours to suck into its vortex. It will have to look further afield. It is already paying millions of Euros every year to the Ukraine for 'development' purposes. The EU has already caused the fall of Ukraine's rather anti-EU Government and its replacement by a pro-EU Government. That is meddling.
It's even more dangerous because it is meddling in a country in Russia's backyard and grooming and wooing the Ukraine into the EU empire is, justifiably, angering Russia.

We'd be upset if Russia started wooing Scotland or Wales.

So at what point does Junckers start to employ this EU army that he has decreed is necessary to 'enforce EU foreign policy'?

So before painting Putin as the bad guy, pause to think what effect the EU is having within Europe and consider whether it may actually be a destabilising force rather than that nice pink fluffy organisation that the elite wants to sell to you. After all wars are very good for business.

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 01:01

Spinflight thinks putin isn't a bad guy apparently. And we were naughty to let Ukraine think it could trade with Europe when really ir should have bowed to master Russia. Am wondering if I've stepped into a parallel world.

EachandEveryone · 12/06/2016 01:03

Im home cos i have a ward to work on tomorrow night. Im sure the hens are still dancing. Im the older relative from what i could make out they had professional jobs and were early thirties.

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 01:04

Also juncker has no power to decide/ deploy any kind of EU army. Any statement to the contrary is a lie I'm afraid. UK has full competence / veto on defence

SpringingIntoAction · 12/06/2016 01:07

Spinflight thinks putin isn't a bad guy apparently. And we were naughty to let Ukraine think it could trade with Europe when really ir should have bowed to master Russia. Am wondering if I've stepped into a parallel world

I'm with Spinflight. You've swallowed the elitist position on this.

Ukraine is not an EU country. It is on Russia's doorstep. It has a history of instability. We have no right whatsoever to be meddling their and giving it vast amounts of 'EU', in reality, Uk tax-payer's money, to encourage it into the EU fold. That action is antagonistic towards Russia.

I do not want my taxes being sent to the EU to enable it to ferment war in countries that are not in the EU.

SpringingIntoAction · 12/06/2016 01:15

Also juncker has no power to decide/ deploy any kind of EU army. Any statement to the contrary is a lie I'm afraid. UK has full competence / veto on defence

You really don't understand how this EU thing works. There are the written rules and there are the unwritten pragmatic stances that frequently override any 'rules'. Essentially, what the EU wants the EU gets.

Junckers wants one

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

An EU directed military already exists
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

It's already here, on exercises

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3602683/Invasion-EU-army-Worried-Euro-tanks-park-lawn-Minister-late-here.html

Yes, I know it's the Daily Mail, but the sources you Remainers like have a habit of not reporting things that may frighten the horses.

A 'trading organisation' which is what the EU is being sold to us as, has no business badging military vehicles with its insignia and demanding an EU army.

And no, I am not going to move along, because there is plenty to stay and gawp at and it's time we all did.

JassyRadlett · 12/06/2016 07:20

Ukraine is not an EU country. It is on Russia's doorstep. It has a history of instability. We have no right whatsoever to be meddling their and giving it vast amounts of 'EU', in reality, Uk tax-payer's money, to encourage it into the EU fold. That action is antagonistic towards Russia

Yes, fuck Ukraine. The upstarts, daring to think they were an independent nation in Europe and might be able to make decisions for themselves on what alliances and trading partners they might want to have. How could they possibly believe they would be supported in making choices that might make them more prosperous, or protected from invasion?

Can't upset that nice Mr Putin, he does have such a temper.

Motheroffourdragons · 12/06/2016 08:51

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Jelliedeels · 12/06/2016 08:53

Mother - no no no
And I'm an out

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 09:57

I thought you leavers were in favour of democracy and sovereignty? Apparently not if you're upsetting Russia. Ukraine was an independent country and made their choices.

Springing - there are some joint exercises bur that's not an EU army.

I happen to have watched many issues over the years where 'the EU' doesn't get what 'it wants'. Juncker for a start is not 'the EU' and if you think that you really have very little understanding of how it works. The EU Army thing is massive scaremongering fron Leave. With no basis in fact. Suggest you check the full fact website.

throwingpebbles · 12/06/2016 10:40

An interesting point to think about here

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153521627025863&id=532370862

These "details" get glossed over in the media circus, but they will suddenly become very relevant in the aftermath of a "leave" win

JassyRadlett · 12/06/2016 10:55

Pebbles, that makes a really good point about ratification of any new deal, which I hadn't thought about.

throwingpebbles · 12/06/2016 10:59

Exactly jassy and while we are still crawling out of a financial crisis, the last thing the UK needs is many years of uncertainty

Winterbiscuit · 12/06/2016 11:14

Juncker for a start is not 'the EU'

He has certainly been heavily involved in the EU. Juncker was a key figure in setting up the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, taking us into the EU as we now know it. For several years he was President of the Eurogroup.

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 11:37

He is a significant figure. But certainly not in the way springing implied

Motheroffourdragons · 12/06/2016 13:34

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 12/06/2016 13:35

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Spinflight · 12/06/2016 13:59

"Spinflight thinks putin isn't a bad guy apparently."

Absolutely not!

I decry Putin as a demagogue and dictator.

"And we were naughty to let Ukraine think it could trade with Europe when really ir should have bowed to master Russia. Am wondering if I've stepped into a parallel world."

I also decry Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian President in 2014, as a corrupt stooge.

He was however elected ( relatively) democratically in 2010.

He was due to sign a trade deal with the EU, but changed direction and signed one with Russia instead.

At that point the EU tanks rolled, they mobilised resistance and instantly recognised an unelected government.

The question that truly worries me is what would have happened in the Ukraine if the EU President had had an army of sufficient size to intervene? Refusing to sign a trade deal is no reason for war.

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 16:02

spinflight - what on earth are you talking about? EU TANKS? Surely shome mistake given that there were actual Russian tanks in Ukraine. Don't minimise.

And really you are deluded to imagine that the Council would EVER give control of anything related to Defence to the Commission President. Anything to do with defence is firmly housed in the European Council.

LeaveTheRoundAbout · 12/06/2016 17:06

The link says basically - Some people over estimate and some people under estimate percentage of EU people in UK.

Err that's because the EU migrant population isn't spread evenly over the UK....

It is disproportionately high in poorer areas and has drastically changed their environment and put pressure on services in those areas.

which is why we have people saying they don't know what the fuss is about.

People disproportionally affected are labelled bigots by Labour and their experience dismissed.

That is the issue.

Jelliedeels · 12/06/2016 17:07

Leave / couldn't agree more

Limer · 12/06/2016 17:14

Very true LeaveTheRoundAbout

I just posted on another thread about this. People who think there are too many EU migrants aren't going to have their minds changed by being told, "You're wrong! Look at the chart! It's not 15%, it's only 5%!" The point is, whatever the percentage is, people think it's too many.

nearlyhellokitty · 12/06/2016 17:38

Leave - I think you are posting on the wrong thread.

By the way it also highlights perceptions on budget and investment, which for me was just as interesting.

I think it's super important for people to have access to the facts, don't understand why you're making such a song and dance about people trying to provide information. Once that's in, of course voters can make their own decisions on what they think the figures mean for them.

All these postings from Leave for me is typical as well - every time someone tries to question whether some of the leave statements are correct they get shouted down.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/06/2016 18:33

Probably because many on the leave side have been ignored and patronised for far far too long

Why else have so many turned away from labour and voted for ukip

A few years ago Mary Beard was telling a member of the audience her experience of immigration in her area was a load of rubbish because she has a report that of course can never be tweaked that said so

this is so typical happens again and again

But the lower classes should know their place shouldn't they Hmm