Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

I don't know, I haven't read up on it, I don't know exactly what your accusation is.

thick mother had it right
Tbh one of the things that gets on my wick is exactly what you did before - jump on any EU legislation as bad when often it's about standing up to the big monopolies like JCB or microsoft for example! Or increasing air quality or water standards. Of course there's rubbish EU stuff as well but some of it is super important!

It is better to be onboard the sinking ship rearranging the deckchairs than sailing off in our own boat in a different direction
Really?
You are alluding to the phrase ' rearranging deckchairs on the titanic' a metaphor for well meaning but futile attempts to save something which is doomed to fail

Sorry glass. It was a lame attempt at irony.

What does everyone think about Dennis Skinner coming out? I am over the moon because I love him.

Oh!
My mistake Milly 😋

Ahh, so that's why JCB is anti EU - because so called "red tape" has prevented him screwing over customers.

That's the reality of the regulation Brexiteers deride - fair competition, safety standards that ensure the toys you buy aren't going to go up in flames, cleaner air.

It's not just bullsh*t about straight bananas (that story is fictional but has become a Euro myth somehow)

And btw I never claimed to be a merchant banker. I apologise if the line "I am not a banker" was somehow ambiguous. But yes, I do have a friend who had to spend £2000 to get a new passport and fly out later to her 20th anniversary holiday after a last min change to ESTA rules meant they couldn't get on the first flight. She had saved for the holiday for years and the alternative was to sit at home and miss the entire thing. I am sorry that you think someone who might do this is a dreadful person.

I am not on the Remain payroll, no. Why is it that if someone happens to have a different view to you, Brexiters immediately suggest you must be part of some great conspiracy? I've explained quite clearly my own self-interest in not wanting to leave, as well as my concern about the impact on the country.

thick mother. possibly

One short paragraph is not enough to convince me. It no doubt is more complex than that.

thick ahem :-) unintended conflation of names

Here's the detail:
europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-00-1526_en.htm?locale=en
background to the case
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:62004CJ0167&from=EN

JCB Service and its subsidiaries have infringed Article 81 EC by entering into agreements or concerted practices with authorised distributors, the object of which is to restrict competition within the common market in order to partition national markets and provide absolute protection in exclusive territories outside which authorised distributors are prevented from making active sales and which include the following:
(a) restrictions on passive sales by authorised distributors in the United Kingdom, Ireland, France and Italy, which include sales to unauthorised distributors, end users or authorised distributors located outside exclusive territories and, in particular, in other Member States;

(b) restrictions on sources of supply regarding purchases of contract goods by authorised distributors located in France and Italy, which prevent cross supplies between distributors;
(c) fixing of discounts or resale prices applicable by authorised distributors in the United Kingdom and France;
(d) imposition of service support fees on sales to other Member States effected by authorised distributors outside exclusive territories in the United Kingdom on the initiative of and according to fixed scales set forth by JC Bamford Excavators Ltd or other subsidiaries of JCB Service, thereby making distributors’ remuneration dependent on the geographic destination of sales;
(e) withdrawal of allowances depending on whether sales in the United Kingdom are made within or outside exclusive territories or whether authorised distributors, in the territory of whom contractual products are used, reach an agreement with authorised selling distributors, thereby making distributors’ remuneration dependent on the geographic destination of sales.

safety standards that ensure the toys you buy aren't going to go up in flames

Actually the UK has always been a leader in toy safety. Just for example, the British Kitemark was introduced over 100 years ago, in 1903, and is still used and respected today. The Lion Mark was developed in 1988 (again, before the 1992 Maastricht Treaty creating the EU as it now stands) by the British Toy & Hobby Association as a symbol of toy safety and quality.

bullsht about straight bananas

The exact words "straight bananas" weren't used by the EU. However, they said in a 1994 regulation that bananas must be "free from abnormal curvature"

cleaner air

I agree that on green issues the EU has worked better than in many other areas it controls. However, the world has moved on greatly since we joined the EU, and I think it's highly unlikely there would be backward steps taken after Brexit. As outlined in this quote from the Telegraph:

Would Brexit mean the end of green targets?

"Would Brexit mean an end to all that?

"Probably not.

"Withdrawing from the EU might allow the UK to take an easier route on heat and transport policies in the short-term, if Britain was no longer obliged to hit the RED target for 2020.

"But when it comes to renewable electricity, long lead-times to build new wind farms mean most of the projects needed to hit the 30 per cent goal have already been granted planning permission and subsidy contracts.

"Post-2020, Brexit appears unlikely to make a difference to UK energy policy - because Britain's own unilateral Climate Change Act actually imposes even tougher requirements for cutting carbon emissions."

I think it is our duty to Remain on the ship.

It is the captain's duty to remain on a sinking ship. The UK isn't captain of the EU.

Once we leave, we'll be better able to offer assistance and support when the EU project fails, if we're not tangled up with it all.

I think the opening post of this thread has been a great prompt for discussion about the worries people have whether stay or remain, I think some of the comments directed at the op are a bit uncalled for though.

After watching the "debate" on ITV last night I'm less concerned still about the outcome of the vote but still bewildered why NEITHER side really wants to give a straight bloody answer. Is it just that they've all been entrenched in the political system they don't know how to anymore?

If we come out of the EU it will affect the NHS because of TTIP

In brief: The proposed EU-US trade deal known as TTIP might have implications for public services, but EU officials want to include wording designed to keep governments free to run services like the NHS. This should stop the NHS from having to be opened up to US companies, although it may still mean that undoing NHS privatisation in future is more expensive. That would depend on what an international court makes of the agreement, which is still being negotiated.

Actually the EU gives the NHS protection. Please google to find out more. I vote stay in Europe.

winter you really think there won't be backwards steps on green stuff ? have you been watching what the UK government has done on renewable energy and other low carbon technologies recently? i.e. nearly killed them stone dead.

the point is as well that the UK can influence pan EU legislation through being in the EU - if the UK is more ambitious than others that's great but businesses tend to complain about lacking a level playing field. Through pan EU legislation on key issues like air, water, etc the idea is that standards get raised across the board. Surely it's better for the UK to be involved in that rather than watching from the sidelines.

click here

There is no straight answer
At best there is only conjecture

It is the captain's duty to remain on a sinking ship. The UK isn't captain of the EU

And the EU isn't a ship

We might just be able to predict roughly what will happen iif we leave or stay and everything else stays the same
But everything else will not stay the same
There will be multiple unforseen and unforeseeable consequences and events

Events only look inevitable and predictable with hindsight

Winter, did they really use the term 'free from abnormal curvature? That really made me giggle.

Why is a curved banana considered inferior to a straight one? (I fear we're straying into 50 shades territory here.) The only problem I can see is that it might not fit into a Lakeland banana protector.

To ne fair, they refer to abnormal curves, not normal ones.

Not just you losing sleep Mrs Blackburn!

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/paul-johnson-leavers-may-not-like-economists-but-we-are-right-about-brexit-a3267601.html
"...Many economists I’ve met in recent weeks have confided that they are quite literally losing sleep over this. There is a palpable fear that something really quite grim for the British economy could follow a Brexit. And before the cynics ask — no, this is not because they (we) are in hock to Brussels for funding. We’re not. And in any case economists, like bankruptcy and insolvency specialists, tend to do fine when the economy goes wrong...

So why do nearly all economists worry so much? The explanation lies in three words: uncertainty, investment and trade.

In the short run a vote for Brexit would create uncertainty. In the immediate aftermath the pound, and probably the stock market, would dive, making us all poorer. Investment and consumption would fall, and the economy would suffer. Even one of the few pro-Brexit economists — former Boris Johnson adviser Gerard Lyons — accepts that short-term uncertainty would lead to reduced growth in the immediate future. He describes it as being like the first part of a Nike swoosh — short-term pain for long-term gain. There’s no doubt we’d suffer in the short term.

What about the long run? If there is one thing that economics has taught us over the past two centuries it is that free trade and openness is good for growth. In any scenario for a post-Brexit UK, trade with the rest of Europe — by far our biggest trade partner — would become more costly than it is at the moment. And it would take years to sort out trade agreements with the EU and with the rest of the world. That would slow economic growth.

The UK would also become far less attractive to foreign investors seeking access to the single market. Trade and foreign investment are crucial drivers of growth and productivity, not just because of their direct effects but because both stimulate competition and productivity right across the economy. That’s why the best evidence is absolutely, unequivocally clear: we are much better off now than we would have been had we never joined the EU. Again these are just facts.

We are a rich country. The UK is either the fifth or ninth biggest economy in the world (depending on how you measure it). We could cope outside the EU. We can choose to accept a fall in our living standards to regain some sovereignty. I can’t tell you how to trade these things off, how to make this choice. I can tell you that Brexit would almost certainly make us, economically, poorer. ..."

80K but one person's abnormal is another person's normal.

What did they define as abnormal?

JassyRadlett Wed - Saying it puts people off... Omg if you want to go somewhere in the world then you apply for a visa and they don't cost that much. Says someone who has never tried to obtain an independent tourist visa to Russia or about half of Africa

Couldn't agree more from someone who has worked in these countries, having to go to london and or get an expensive consular company to send a gopher to wait while they process your passport and visa is a nightmare. Its not cheap either and is inefficient add more costs, if you have ever exported anything to the non EU countries you would also see what a ball ache it is trying to get it released from customs.

I dont need a crystal ball to look at how our business interacts with the EU and how the costs will jump if we brexit. We have a specialist piece of hi-tech equipment made by a european country. Every day its not working a third party can charge for downtime. Currently a guy can jump at short notice on a plane with specialist tools and equipment, come straight here and fix it. Brexit he would have to get a visa and temporary importation licences etc for the tools and equip and all the dicking about with customs.

"Events only look inevitable and predictable with hindsight"

One of the most sensible things posted on here

Breaking. That's one guy how about the thousands that come not with jobs to do?