Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

I know Jassy and I know it means a lot to you, ive read your situation, not sure if it's this thread or a different one.

What situation? What means a lot to me? Sorry, I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this.

I know you feel picked on, and you shouldn't.

Picked on by whom? Not sure what you're basing that on tbh.

But you have to respect that people dont feel the same, and to leave means a lot to us too.

I do - it's simply that on balance that I disagree with you, and the fact that you feel strongly about it doesn't really alter that. Why does my disagreement imply lack of respect?

Jelliedeel. Great post. Especially these bits:

"The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!"

I read this and thought it made sense

It might "make sense" but a lot of it is factually wrong.

For example, leaving the EU means leaving the EEA, unless a separate agreement is made to rejoin the EEA? This sounds simple in theory - until you realise that all EEA members part of the Schenghen area as is Switzerland. This is going to go down hugely well with leave voters, of couse .

Misty and jassy as I say there are always those that will argument for the sake of arguing.

I quoted something the other day from the telegraph and omg did the stayers have a go.

You can't please them all

Jassy im sorry if I've got the wrong poster then. But I think you are Australian? You said you are feeling unwelcome here because of all the negative comments about immigrants? And you'd go back to Australia if we Brexit?

I would like to add that as for facts go there are only the ones from being in the EU. None exist for being outside as every country outside is different from the uk.

Other than projections there are no "out" facts!

Yep, I'm Australian. On another thread I said we have the ability to go back and would have that option if the economy goes down the tank, which is more than most people have - I'm privileged in that regard. I have no instinctive emotional feeling towards or against the EU. I think we should stay, for reasons I've stated, but I didn't move to Britain because it's in the EU and I wouldn't quit the country simply because we left.

To be honest I'm not sure the anti-immigrant sentiment will be worse if the result is leave or remain. If it were just me it would be fine, as I'm pretty tough and most people don't realise I'm an immigrant anyway (which gives them licence to hold forth). But there is a level of vitriol I've heard towards the children of immigrant mothers (no one seems to be interested in their dad) which I don't want my children to have to encounter as they grow older.

I would like to add that as for facts go there are only the ones from being in the EU. None exist for being outside as every country outside is different from the uk.

Other than projections there are no "out" facts!

I agree with the general principle but actually there are some things that we know, factually, the U.K. will not be if we leave. One is an automatic member of the EEA.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, and I wouldn't dream of ascribing motive to your posts. I'm arguing because this is an important vote, and truth matters.

You can have your own opinions eels but not your own facts.

It's simply a fact that leaving the EU means leaving the EEA, unless an agreement is struck to rejoin the EEA. This will involve full free movement.

As it happens, I think there is an excellent chance of this happening, but it's not a natural consequence of leaving the EU; it would require negotiation and a new agreement.

There are a number of other blatantly incorrect assertions in that piece, but it's a waste of time to list them here.

I'm voting out and I'm really fearful we won't get a Leave majority vote.

I don't think we will Peppermintea. I think a remain vote is highly, highly likely. Remember how close the Scottish referendum was supposed to be? In the actual event, there were ten points of difference.

CLAIG - have you been whispering in Gavin Hewitt's ear...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36458369

Am at a loss as to how people can't see that the advocates of leave are some of the most extreme right wing politicians we have seen.

Most supporters of Brexit aren't politicians. And there are many right-wingers on the Remain side, and voters supporting Lexit (the left-wing case for Brexit).

From Suzanne Moore in today's Guardian: -

The Eurozone is also in crisis. If we vote to leave the EU, the whole thing could implode. A series of countries have borne the brunt of its polices, not just Greece, but Portugal, Ireland and Spain, too. The workers’ rights that the EU is said to protect? Tell that to the countries with long-term youth unemployment. Does the EU redistribute wealth? To the bankers, yes. We know who suffers both here and on the continent: the poorest people. Who right now is speaking up for them? I am not surprised that the polls show a complete class divide between those who will vote remain and those who will vote leave. Those who feel disenfranchised economically by wages being driven down have lost faith in the ability of the political class to represent them. The response of this political class – to label everyone else racist – is a zero-sum game. Many will vote to leave as a way of sticking two fingers up, but watching those who benefit from globalisation lecture those who have lost out from it is unedifying to say the least. The country is split and will remain split. Where there was an opportunity for the left to engage, there has been abdication of responsibility, a Corbynite lethargy.

Oh that's an interesting article bananabrain35. Especially "Research from the Pew Research Centre finds that just 51% across 10 EU countries have a favourable view of the European Union. Some 42% want more power returned to their national capitals."

I'm not so convinced by Donald Tusk suddenly saying he thinks there's too much integration in the EU. Of course he'd say that when there's a referendum coming up

Here's some good news! The economy is doing really well. Funny George Osborne hasn't been on the airwaves today proclaiming this news - it sort of flies in the face of the Project Fear narrative...

www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2016/jun/08/why-upbeat-uk-manufacturing-figures-have-silenced-osborne-increase-production-eu

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Yes I understand your worry but at the same time, do you understand that families have been royally fucked from the moment hundreds of thousands of people from very poor countries were allowed to come here?

www.frankfield.co.uk/latest-news/articles/news.aspx?p=1021270

It is the poorest in our communities, those whose choices in life are already by far the most restricted, whose standard of living is most adversely affected by the arrival of a record number of newcomers

^^ the people this man talks of - are very very very very poor, they have nothing at the bottom of the pile and their chances and life chances were depressed further by mass immigration.

So while I understand its a worry for you, I imagine your in a far better position than the people in this mans ward who are literally at the bottom of the heap, already - totally fucked.

bananabrain35

I can only thinnk that great minds thnk alike.

"The economy is doing really well."

I reckon our manufacturers will do us proud after Brexit also.

Frank Field is very sensible. I think immigration has become a problem particularly in the SE and not just from the EU. Tony's Blair government has a lot to answer for.

My parent's standard of living (born in war) was better than their parents etc but I think the British standard of living is going backwards for my dc's generation due to high house prices and stagnant wages. It will be hard for them to afford there own dc.

I would like the points system her and it should have been that way in the first place.

Countries which have points systems generally have higher immigration than we do.

The Leave side suggest we can join the EEA if we leave so we can still trade. But that means not only not having a points system, but joining the Schengen free movement zone. So that's having significantly less control of our borders than we do now. The Leave side's policies are a contradictory mess and are going to do nothing to reduce immigration.

Schengen is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

All EEA members, plus Switzerland, are inside the Schengen area. If the UK rejoins the EEA, as I think it almost certainly will wish to, there are going to be some interesting negotiations on this point.

I think we will vote to remain in the end.

If we vote to exit, I think it will simply be the beginning of new, more serious negotiations, not the farce we witnessed a few months earlier. Those negotiations will change the EU and our relationship with it.

If we end up negotiating with the EU, it will not be the same EU it was with us in it.

We don't have to pick the Swiss model, the Norwegian model, the Greenland model, etc. none of them have exactly the same relationship with the EU and we would not either.

I haven't read the whole thread but I did start to and saw some people picking up on my comment that most highly educated people are voting remain. I wanted to explain this. Of course I didn't just randomly speak for a whole sector of society or make it up. I based it on an opinion poll that showed how people were voting by education level. The majority of people with degrees or higher were voting remain.

We don't have to pick the Swiss model, the Norwegian model, the Greenland model, etc. none of them have exactly the same relationship with the EU and we would not either

Funny how some people are not able to grasp this. But I feel even if Remaining meant most of the UK population would have to be culled by machine gun, some Bremainers wuld agree to save their own necks and jobs.