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Brexit

Latest immigration stats released & they are gigantic again

404 replies

BritBrit · 26/05/2016 10:22

The final immigration stats from the ONS before the EU referendum have been released with immigration for 2015 at 630,000.

-630,000 immigrants came to the UK
-Net immigration was 333,000 up 20,000
-EU immigration was 270,000
-Romanian & Bulgarian immigration tripled in 2015
-42% of EU immigrants did not have a job when coming to the UK
-EU immigrants took more new British jobs (224,000) than British workers (185,000)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 27/05/2016 10:21

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StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:23

The EU ideally would contribute towards development of those regions, so migration would likely diminish

It already is Confused but you have to remember there is an awful lot of corruption in places like Romania in Government. Its going to be a very long slow, painful process, change doesn't happen over night.

Lweji · 27/05/2016 10:24

Interesting, Palehorse

Does that mean that 30% of the medical workforce in the NHS cost nothing to the UK? But cost their own countries, which means that the UK relies on financial investment by other countries (many non-European) to fund and maintain their NHS?

Lweji · 27/05/2016 10:26

StepintotheLightleave

No, it doesn't happen overnight, but stepping out of the EU, and considering migration loopholes, migration is still likely to happen, while those countries will stay the same (undesirable to live in).

StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:29

I cant keep going round in circles over it.

If you want to believe we would have to follow the Norway/Switzerland model please continue to do so.

People who want to leave are passionate about it, Dr David Bill who lives in Tower Hamlets and has medical experience is asking people to Vote Leave, he said there are no doctors and hospitals to cope with such volume of numbers. ( on the wright stuff).

Not many people who want leave would continue to accept free movement of people.

But - if we Leave, and this sort of deal is proposed - People can protest about it. It will be far easier to protest to our own democratically elected government - than to Brussels.

Brussles couldn't care less about the UK it cares about the whole, and the whole project.

Tyranosops · 27/05/2016 10:30

This thread is worrying. Is no one bothered about overpopulation? Regulated immigration?

StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:30

I don't doubt migration will still happen, again I have never heard a leaver say - they want immigration to stop.

Its volume.

Its so simple, Volume of people.

UterusUterusGhali · 27/05/2016 10:31

Is anybody else worried about the influx of thousands of pensioners if we leave, coming back from Spain etc when they can't draw their benefits any more?

Thousands of people who need housing and medical care.

We rely on migrants heavily in construction and the NHS.

RedToothBrush · 27/05/2016 10:32

Romania and Bulgaria are EU and receiving EU money. I think questions should be asked about why they are not supporting their own people.

There is no question here. Its not about 'looking after your own'. They can look after their own. They just don't have as good opportunities. It is a natural thing to want the best in life for your family. If there are more opportunities elsewhere people will gravitate towards it. Amazingly this is what a lot of Brits do, if they are offered a better standard of living elsewhere. Yes SHOCK HORROR. Brits do the same thing.

It's a simple sum .... if more people arrive they will need housing. It is not the obligation of the UK to keep building and building for either EU nationals or non-EU
Well perhaps your simple sum is, where it is cheaper to build houses and infrastructure in the UK or elsewhere in Europe.... Arh, but other places should 'look after their own' so you don't want to even entertain that idea because you are too short sighted.

Surely the upper limit should be under the maximum that the country can absorb at any given time.
And you enforce this HOW? If you do this then everyone will need a visa. Which has a cost too. We are not in a position to now impose this with EU countries because of the EU. But no one wants to acknowledge this. So you can bleat as much as much as you want.

Would you advise any upper limit to EU immigrant numbers?
Perhaps you would like to READ my posts. Why talk about upper limits when they are unachievable and its unenforceable. The horse bolted decades ago on that, when the EU started free movement. And is made worse by wars, increasing global inequality and ever increasing global populations. If you want to take immigration, look beyond your own borders to how you do it.

All the naval gazing and isolationism actually INCREASES migration it as it doesn't solve the underlying problems.

All migration is, is a combination of PUSH and PULL factors.
If you want to 'control' migration, you have to deal with BOTH push and pull factors.

Migration is also the consequence of high birth rates elsewhere around the world. People move when the 'maximum that the country can absorb' is exceeded. But we are not discussing how we control birth rates across the global, because no one screaming about immigration can draw the line between the dots and think the problem is solved with the draw bridge alone.

No one wants to share their wealth elsewhere, because if you are helping others you can't possibly be helping yourself. Can you?

The simplistic logic and thinking of isolationism or you should 'look after your own' is that every government in the last 500 years who has tried it, has found it undoable in the end. Because we do not live in isolation. This is true now, more than ever. We live in a global world.

Migration is the direct result of global inequality
NEWSFLASH. You can not stop migration without tackling global inequality. You can not 'hoard' the wealth on our little island.

Geography is a bastard for the UK. 20 odd miles of water or a tunnel or a border with Ireland mean we don't have the luxury of options.

The truth is, whilst we are doing well, people will come here, legally or illegally in large numbers because that's the nature of the beast
Do we want to pretend this isn't the case?

Say we do, 'close the borders' do you think this will solve the issue? Or will it drive it underground and will it result in more illegal immigration and illegal employment that we already have? Fuelling more exploitation and crime?

America has spent decades pretending that illegal immigration doesn't happen and has had to have amnesties in the end because of the problems its caused.

You want a simple magic solution to migration?
Well I have got one. Make the UK less attractive to migrants by screwing its economy up. Problem solved.

Or you stop thinking in terms of Them and Us and start thinking about how we go about reducing global poverty, overcrowding and political instability.

Sadly though, that type of joined up thinking doesn't appeal to the Farages and the Johnsons of this world, who appeal to popular thought and can get more votes by just ignoring the inconvenience of the nature of migration.

Why attempt selling the bitter pill of reality when you can sell the fantasy of unicorns and fairies for your political gain of power?
If you want to buy shares in unicorns please feel free, I'm not stopping you. But its not going to stop migration and if that's really your ultimate goal and concern, the longer you believe in fairies the more the UK will become overcrowded.

Well unless, the economy goes tits up.
In which case, we'll be stuck with lots of Brits with no where else to go due to migration control elsewhere. There will be lots more overqualified Brits competing with the 'underclasses' as others delightfully put it for the fewer British jobs there are. And if the economy is doing badly, where do you think money for welfare will come from? Oh yes. Forgot. The fairies.

Honestly. If you are going to preach at me about equations and housing, well here's one for you.
Think Global. Think Human. Think Inequality. Solve Problems. End Migration.

Motheroffourdragons · 27/05/2016 10:34

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StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:35

Perhaps you would like to READ my posts. Why talk about upper limits when they are unachievable and its unenforceable. The horse bolted decades ago on that, when the EU started free movement

You do know there is a referendum don't you! Weird you present this as a fait accompli we cant do anything about. We will never ever be able to do anything about it - if we STAY!

If we leave we can then start to work on this horse - its kinda the whole point Grin Confused

StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:36

Oh yes MOther which is why we have had numerous over turns of policy Hmm

RedToothBrush · 27/05/2016 10:37

This thread is worrying. Is no one bothered about overpopulation?
Of course I fucking am. I'm just not a blind idiot who can't see that its a global issue that isn't going to be solved with a vote on 23rd June and instead will take decades if not centuries because of the complexity of the issues involved on a global scale.

Greed and isolationism actually add to the problem in the long term.

Until you understand a problem you can't solve a problem.

People who talk about reducing immigration, just don't understand the problem and are proposing a solution that won't work and will just create different issues.

Lweji · 27/05/2016 10:38

Surely the upper limit should be under the maximum that the country can absorb at any given time.
" And you enforce this HOW? "

That was one of my points in the context of my entire post. Wink Along with the impossibility of controlling all those that go in and go out.

StepintotheLightleave · 27/05/2016 10:38

Red I dont know how old you are but I hope you realise pre EU people were able to move abroad with ease, work abroad and Live abroad.

I know this because my own family lives abroad, and works abroad, in Europe and Africa, Australia etc.

So if we leave the EU, people can still MOVE. I think one of the issues is, a younger generation cant understand that pre EU this did happen Grin

Lweji · 27/05/2016 10:42

a younger generation cant understand that pre EU this did happen grin

Yes.
And that many migrants go from outside of Europe too. :)
Eastern European migration started way before the countries entered the EU too.

Motheroffourdragons · 27/05/2016 10:43

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unlucky83 · 27/05/2016 10:59

pale I find those figures difficult to decipher - with 24, 000 doctors trained in India and 18,000 total NHS workers are from India?

I make it about 70,000 NHS workers are from overseas....so less than a third of the the annual net immigration in ONE year...
Or 100,000 trained overseas - a third of our net immigration in ONE year.
And immigration from outside Europe is stricter than from within...and the majority of the people in those figures are from outside the EU -so we would expect them to be more highly qualified.
Now imagine if we hadn't had such an influx over the last 10-15 yrs - would we still need to be paying the wages of that 70,000?

RedToothBrush · 27/05/2016 11:09

Red I dont know how old you are but I hope you realise pre EU people were able to move abroad with ease, work abroad and Live abroad.
I know this because my own family lives abroad, and works abroad, in Europe and Africa, Australia etc. So if we leave the EU, people can still MOVE.

So the politics of pre-1973 are still true today? And visa and border controls across the world have not changed and other places are also not looking to tighten up with places they haven't got a bilateral free movement agreement with?
For a start the world population in 1973 was around 3.9 billion. The estimate today is about 7.2 billion.
I kind of think comparing pre-EU with now, is well.
Daft.
And just more unicorn pedalling.

The irony is DH is skilled in an area where, it makes no odds to me personally as we probably will continue to have that freedom to move. But we are the exception rather than the rule.

I have family and friends who have moved, lived and worked across the world. Before the EU, during the EU and today. These friends and family who have moved in the past, if they tried to today would not be able to do so as their skills / industry would not be sufficient.

I have friends who have married foreign national and the visa and residency problems they have already had are an utter disgrace. All above board with the correct documentation and legal advice. They were treated like criminals. It got to the point they had to get the local MP involved.

Its not going to get any better.

We needs solutions to the actual problems, not borders control and creating other problems.

Turbinaria · 27/05/2016 11:12

I'm far more concerned about the instability of the Eurozone and even though we don't have the Euro we still had to pay £58million in contributions to help bail out Greece last year.

The Eurozone is like a stack of cards at the moment with economies such as Spain, Portugal, Italy all still very shaky if one of them implodes they will take everyone else in the EU with them. And I haven't even factored in all the recent accession countries or Turkey, Albania, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro who want to join.

If the EU was made up of politically and economically stable countries then remain would be much less of a risk but now the analogy is more like sharing a house and a joint bank account with people you don't really know with poor credit ratings, in deep debt, no savings, low earnings and lack of long term prospects. If they hit the buffers you will end up being held responsible for the whole she-bang

Turbinaria · 27/05/2016 11:13

Sorry the UK actually paid £850million in contributions to help bail out Greece in 2015

RedToothBrush · 27/05/2016 11:21

Turbinaria, if 'the stack of cards falls', it makes no difference. We are exposed to it. We will have to deal with the consequences regardless.

Also remember that the Leave model is to extend trade with China and the USA. Which also both have their own 'stack of cards' that has the potential to come crashing down. Australia which has boomed on the back of its natural resources for the last decade whilst much of the rest of the world has struggled, is now facing a crisis as demand from China has nose dived.

The whole world economy is built of debt and is utterly precarious. It is not a Eurozone problem. Its a global problem.

As a 'banking nation' we are exposed more than most, whoever it is.

Flumplet · 27/05/2016 12:00

I am concerned about migration too - and really not from a xenophobic or racist perspective at all. My family and I live in a very multicultural and diverse area of the country and we love it - but from an infrastructure pov, i am worried about what's going to happen. Are more schools being built at a satisfactory rate to accommodate all the extra people? Are more houses being built? Are more hospitals and GP surgeries being built? More doctors, nurses, teachers, midwives, police officers being recruited? If not, we're already in a big pickle, and it's only going to become even more of pickle in future if we remain in the EU and our borders are open to yet more new EU countries. I just can't get my head around how its going to work. And that's before we get started on the welfare system which is already buckling - but that's a whole new can of worms to open. And as much as I love the rich cultural diversity that migration brings, i think its going to need to be capped at a much lower rate.

RedToothBrush · 27/05/2016 12:04

I don't get this.

Why are only Leavers the only ones concerned about migration? And infrastructure and service provision?

That's a nonsense.

Flumplet · 27/05/2016 12:12

I'm undecided actually, but why aren't remainers concerned about it?! If there are answers that reassure me that i'm worried for nothing then i'll happily listen to them!