Latest immigration stats released & they are gigantic again

[BritBrit]

The final immigration stats from the ONS before the EU referendum have been released with immigration for 2015 at 630,000.

-630,000 immigrants came to the UK
-Net immigration was 333,000 up 20,000
-EU immigration was 270,000
-Romanian & Bulgarian immigration tripled in 2015
-42% of EU immigrants did not have a job when coming to the UK
-EU immigrants took more new British jobs (224,000) than British workers (185,000)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016

myhover I really think you are struggling to grasp the concept - it doesn't need optimism.
We have our border in Calais - the migrants can't get legally through. So they try and smuggle their way across. That causes problems.
If we have a border in Dover -the migrants can't get legally through (just the same as the one in Calais.) If we pick them up there instead of turning them away we stick them in a detention centre and process them. The ones without a case get rejected and returned to their country of origin. Or left in a detention centre until they decide they are better off returning home. Anyway they will not be dropped off a few miles away to try and sneak through again.
They will still have to stay somewhere and sneak through (or find themselves in the customs at Dover - which as you have said - they don't want) - they can't wait in the middle of the channel whilst they try to find an opportunity - they will have to stay in Calais... it doesn't take a genius to work that out... and the French are not letting us have our border in Calais as an act of pure altruism -it is in their interest too - cos they get financial help for a problem that they wouldn't get otherwise.

I wasn't keen on the House of Lords but my view has changed - they can't introduce new laws, they are representative of the whole political spectrum and they can send a proposal back to the commons to say you need to think about that again...which is a stop on stupid policies.
(I'm in Scotland and we don't have another chamber but we are supposed to have a system that doesn't allow a majority in parliament as a check however we have had one and some things that have gone thorough could have done with being subjected to more rigorous examination - sent back for a rethink ...like the introduction of the Curriculum for Excellence in Education and Police Scotland)
And for instance if the government in power and with a majority proposed to eg change the voting system to weigh it in their favour - so effectively they could be perpetually in power - they could get it through the commons with their majority but very likely not through the Lords -at the very least it draws public attention to the actions of the Commons.

As for FPTP - I agree to an extent - but we had the AV referendum and a change was rejected by the majority who bothered to vote. (I would agree it wasn't best promoted or explained but that's what happened) And I don't think the only people who voted not to change or didn't bother to vote were ones who now support Brexit (unless you have the data to support that POV?)
Democracy don't underestimate the power of democracy...
Just because your chosen party isn't in government doesn't mean that your vote doesn't count.

Wrote this on another thread and have copied it
No matter how little you think your vote counts -it does really - even if who you voted for wasn't actually elected.
The beginnings of the NHS were in the introduction of National Insurance in 1911 -by the Liberal party. It meant workers could access free doctors. The Liberals very likely introduced NI because they were trying to stop losing support to the Labour party formed in 1900.
If a government suddenly said we can't afford to pay pensions so we are going to kill everyone over the age of 80 - not only would there be uproar but they would not be re-elected and probably never be elected again.
So they wouldn't do it -even if they could - they won't do anything that would alienate the majority of the population. Because we live in a democracy.

And the EU is not democratic.

Actually we only have the chance of this referendum now because the Tories were scared of losing support to the UKIP ...so offered it to try and hold onto votes...which obviously worked....

"And I still think that anyone harping on about democracy who didn't vote to change the FPTP system when we had the opportunity is an idiot."

Well, let's say anyone who didn't vote to change the system wasn't paying attention at the time. But I agree wholeheartedly.

For the pp who said this is about tory bashing - in fairness the tories allowed the referendum on STV - even though they opposed it. The referendum was lost because Labour and Tories both opposed it - because it didn't suit either hierarchy.

YY to just looking at FPTP and the last election.
Last election Tories got 36.9% of the vote - in the 2005 election when Labour won they got 35.2% .
After the Iraq war I vowed never to vote Labour again - that war was something that truly made me ashamed to be British.
And I was horrified that the country had re-elected Blair I felt like we (as a country) were condoning his actions - honestly I would rather have had anyone - even the Monster raving Loony party ...

Well I voted and I voted for AV - and I am now a brexiter. I also signed some petition about it on Change .org.
I do think the system needs an overall but then we have PR in Scotland for things like the Scottish parliament and people complain that isn't fair...
To be honest it would be good if all our elections were held using the same system - as it is it can be quite confusing and we have to have posters up telling us how to vote - this time!
(Two slips both one cross, or two slips the pink one numbered in ordered of preference -but you don't have to order everyone, the yellow one just one cross etc etc )
Anyway I'm a cynic and a pessimist - so surprised Myhover you think I'm optimistic...I might even take that as a compliment...

There are several better systems out there, but these Brexiters harping on about "democracy" either voted against, or didn't even bother to vote when we had the chance.

So you think Remainers made up the entire 41 per cent turnout? Unlikely. It's Remainers who seem to take democracy for granted.

I know you Conservative haters like to heap all sorts of the country's ills at their door - but really look at the facts - would the labourites have complained when TB and GB held power because of FPTP

LOL at you thinking I'm a labour supporter using it as a bash, Nu-labour were terrible.

As I have said before in other posts drop the partisan rubbish - the system is not representative.

"I voted against AV as I didn't want to give a foothold to parties like UKIP."

Oh god. I wanted them to get a foothold. People need to understand what they are voting for and believe they can get what they are voting for. That is democracy. Also, once UKIP get more power (like Thanet) people can see what an absolutely pisspoor job they do. Look what getting exposed to a bit of power did to the Lib Dems. Showed how completely unprepared they were for it.

"I'd rather not have Farage and his cronies getting voted in."

Oh I don't know - after one term of seeing them not bother to vote on important issues, being anti-NHS, anti-workers rights, anti-womens rights, pro-corporate etc. I reckon it would pretty much see them off.

Sooooo...mother we have an argument that our government isn't democratic...then there are two EU bodies - The Council of the Europe Union (Council of Members) and the European Council (heads of nations) which are both taken from our government! So that kind of back fires that argument.
There is the European Parliament - the one we get to vote in directly

And the Commission - unelected.
These are worth reading
ww.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10546394/Europe-is-slowly-strangling-the-life-out-of-national-democracy.html
www.electoral-reform.org.uk/sites/default/files/Tackling-Europes-democratic-deficit.pdf
Read the bit about cutting out the democratic middleman in this one
www.politico.eu/article/brussels-commission-looks-to-sideline-parliament-on-uk-reforms-brexit-cameron-faull/
Or this about how our MEPs vote.
www.votewatch.eu/blog/brexit-or-not-britains-already-isolated-in-brussels/
Watch Brexit the Movie

to give you an idea of what things to look at. (I would be open to seeing remains answers to it - I don't believe everything I read/see but if something gets my interest I will read around and in principle I haven't seen anything in that that isn't 'true' -or at least I can substantiate isn't true) Look at this Irish MEP trying to view the TIPP documents Now is the EU really democratic?

Though bit dry as a swiss national - its great to see his responses to Brexit the movie and where its playing fast and loose.

*haven't seen anything in that that isn't 'true'^

haven't seen it but as the Swiss example shows, I suspect it's not a case of telling outright falsehoods, more of being economical with the truth and not including some very relevant information

I watched the reply - it didn't talk about my main issue (democracy)...just why we shouldn't compare to Switzerland but surely there is a massive contradiction in his argument?
Switzerland had a hard time being outside the free market, had to accept free movement of people etc and still have to pay into the EU to be accepted. And their economic situation improved when they did. Interestingly he quoted Switzerland's position as having slower growth up to 2008 (an interesting date choice there).
At the end he lists all the reasons that the UK are in a worse financial position than Switzerland was ... That would be the UK that has been in the EU free market all that time...surely we should be booming -shouldn't we? Am I missing something?
And mother it is fundamentally undemocratic - maybe if we voted out it would be the shake up it needs...
Margaret Thatcher many many years ago said we could change things from within (as Jeremy Corbyn said in his recent speech - and a trade union leader I listened to) - we haven't - instead things are got worse ...I can't see how we can tackle the flaws as things stand.

The EU clearly isn't reformable, and so there's no point staying and wasting our efforts further. Let's concentrate on creating the UK we would like instead.

myhover if one of the main net contributors (put more money in then we get out) leaves the other net contributors will have to pay more... countries like Germany... and more notably France...
The UK is not the only country that is Eurosceptical en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism
and Eurosceptism is apparently on the rise - if some countries see the UK do it they might get the courage to do the same and in that case the EU would either collapse or be under pressure to reform to win back the support of the people (not the politicians or big business/banks!) Maybe revert to what it was originally - just a free trade region.
Whether that happens or not I don't really care - we just need to get out...