Latest immigration stats released & they are gigantic again

[BritBrit]

The final immigration stats from the ONS before the EU referendum have been released with immigration for 2015 at 630,000.

-630,000 immigrants came to the UK
-Net immigration was 333,000 up 20,000
-EU immigration was 270,000
-Romanian & Bulgarian immigration tripled in 2015
-42% of EU immigrants did not have a job when coming to the UK
-EU immigrants took more new British jobs (224,000) than British workers (185,000)

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016

If the UK were to Brexit, we could design an immigration scheme as we see fit. Base it on the existing non-EU scheme, cherry-pick bits from Australia/Canada/USA, do whatever we wanted. And change it in the future as the country's requirements change.

We are quite deservedly a very popular choice for immigration. But allowing unlimited numbers from the EU forever is completely unsustainable.

Also, as half the people making up the immigration numbers are admitted by a system under the full control of the Government, I am sure they have already implemented a humane and fair system.

So what's the problem with applying it to 100 per cent of migration instead of 50 per cent?

"If the UK were to Brexit, we could design an immigration scheme as we see fit. Base it on the existing non-EU scheme, cherry-pick bits from Australia/Canada/USA, do whatever we wanted. And change it in the future as the country's requirements change. "

Unless we want to trade with the EU (our current biggest trading partner) who would insist on, yes you guessed it, unlimited freedom of movement from Europe. So Brexit would have no impact. Or are we happy to lose a massive amount of trade (and jobs, and skills, and economic strength) to keep those smelly foreigners out?

Why would the EU have all the power?
We could say fine in that case we'll trade with the US, South America, China, India, Canada, Australia etc etc and we also will impose a hefty import duty on all products from the EU...so French wine will cost more but we can drink wine from every where else in the world...in fact offer favourable trading terms - the same can be said for everything really...

unlucky83 - that is a great idea. Strangely, we try to trade with those other economies now too. Is it your belief that we can threaten the EU with "give us a better deal than you give anyone else (even though we have stuck two fingers up at your trading block) OR we will suddenly do much more trade with partners we have a stable trading relationship with that isn't massively moving anyway"?

It's A strategy. I wouldn't feel comfortable betting my future on it.

Hmmm - we don't need a better deal though...and we should be more capable of trading with other regions as we won't be tied to the rules that suit the EU.

All the regulations in the EU suit mainly big business - who can lobby the EU rule makers/commissioners/groups (the MEPs aren't really relevant) so the rules are in their interest ...
Have you watched Brexit the Movie? If not watch it - and stuff like the Irish MEP showing the process he had to go through to view documents regarding deciding how to vote...
It is the lack of democracy that has made me form my Out view...

Only skim read.

I just cannot fathom how anyone thinks this is sustainable in any way.

I have never ever seen so much house building. Every inch that can be built on round us, is being used.

Fights, petitions are always in our local news over small scraps of land that can house tall blocks of flats. where will it end?

unlucky83 - I absolutely agree on the concerns around democracy and administrative processes. I am a very reluctant remainer myself.

It is simply from my job, and the fact that I am an accountant and an economist, that the sheer amount of economic pain we will feel in the short to medium term will be horrific. Absolutely crushing. The Leave argument that we will just leave and end up with really good trade deals with Europe OR loads of trade deals suddenly appearing with other countries is pure fantasy. Those trade deals (with the countries you mention and others) will take years to negotiate. I would say you are looking at 8 to 10 years for each deal to be fully complete for all services / products (although you can negotiate several at once). But we would be negotiating as a single country, not as a trading block.

I disagree, I think the nation will be buoyant and confident.

So many remainers are reluctant and yet leavers seem to be passionately so.

Economists told us we would die without the Euro, and it was the BEST move we made.

Economists failed to warn us of the CC didn't they.

We must listen to Economists but at the same time, put into perspective their warnings - ie the Euro.

Ooh exciting

"Economists told us we would die without the Euro, and it was the BEST move we made.

Economists failed to warn us of the CC didn't they.

We must listen to Economists but at the same time, put into perspective their warnings - ie the Euro."

Which economists? How many of them? All of them? Some of them? Which ones? I would love to see that backed up. I was too young by the way, so don't have a view.

What you tend to find with economists is SOME will agree, SOME will argue against, and SOME will not have a view.

Saying economists told us to join the Euro is like saying "ah, aren't gay people funny?".

I think the relative short term pain will be more than worth it...in the long run.
Posted on another thread - Jeremy Corbyn's speech and a Trade Union leader also were - apparently reluctant remainers - vote in we know there are lots of problems with the EU but we can improve it from within ...we don't want the Tories negotiating our exit.
It is quite funny as 'improve the EU from within' is what Margaret Thatcher said many many years ago but I suspect it has gone past that stage now...
I don't think we will get another chance to leave in my lifetime.
And I don't think we can change the mentality enough from within. Especially with the lack of democracy.
A trading union (as it was originally) would be ok - the EU as it stands is something else entirely.

Forecasting, is a gamble Unex, but as an "economist" I am sure you already know this.

Its gambling pure and simple.

You don't have a crystal ball, and as you say some will say out is better and some in.

The point is, they don't know, you don't know.

I agree Unlucky, the thing is - if we dont leave now, while enough people REMEMEBER what life was like before this marriage took place I think people are brain washed into thinking we need the EU we never ever will

"I think the relative short term pain will be more than worth it...in the long run. "

Unlucky83 - that depends on your personal circumstances. If you are retired on a fixed pension, it probably is. If you are starting out on your career, then an economy that could take 10 to 15 years to get back where it is now (if it ever recovers to where it could have been) most definitely isn't. If your pension is being invested in shares on the LSE, it most definitely isn't. If you have a small business, it most definitely isn't. The company I work for trade across Europe so perversely we would get a massive profits boost during the first year, followed by a slump for probably the next 6 or so.

Bornfree - I am assuming that means you are not going to support your remarks of "don't trust economists they were wrong about the Euro", because it is clearly a bollocks argument.

In terms of seeing the credit crunch coming plenty of economists DID. But it didn't suit big business and politicians to listen to them.

Plenty of economists also said that the Euro (currency union with political union) was a bad idea too.

There was a real split, and differences of opinion.

But a poll I saw today said that 88% of economists surveyed said that brexit would take years to recover from. 88% is a lot. It doesn't mean that they are right (I wasn't surveyed for clarity). But it should suggest there is a high likelihood. It's like when you here 99.5% of climate scientists believe in AGW. Doesn't mean they are right, but I wouldn't be betting against them.

By the way - do all professions get quotation marks or just "economists"? What about "scientists"? Should that have them too?
"Doctors"?
"Lawyers"?

www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?_r=0

good article about it ^ you know "economists" .

Unlucky83 - that depends on your personal circumstances. If you are retired on a fixed pension, it probably is. If you are starting out on your career, then an economy that could take 10 to 15 years to get back where it is now (if it ever recovers to where it could have been) most definitely isn't.

what about the people whose life chances have already been smashed and ruined by the EU experiment? The generations out of work across the continent>

I'm not retired! I have DCs at school - who will be starting their 'careers' in the next 10-15 years. I believe they will survive and thrive in the long run.
I don't think many people have jobs for life any more - you can always change paths - lots of women hit motherhood and change career path.
I had a relatively successful career, but got seriously ill and had to change.
I did my A levels in my late 20s, then an undergraduate and postgrad degree...and started a new career.
I am now thinking about what I am going to do next ...and in my life I have done lots of different things...
At the moment I do part time work for a small charity - essentially a small business - because of the EU I had to jump through a massive hoop for something - and I have just found out I will have to do it again to make a minor change. I have been informed about the new EU directive about e-invoicing etc ...
Working all that out that was done in my own time - unpaid voluntary work - the charity couldn't have afforded to pay me for the time it took. As a small business either the owner would be spending time getting their head around things like that instead of concentrating on their real business (DP had a small business for years that I did the admin for) or they would have to find the money to pay someone....

I agree unlucky I want to pass down a future of freedom to my DC, a future of choice.
I feel people are being thrown a few sweets, paid off, bribed when our democracy is at stake here.

What price can you put on democracy?

Just realised - Unex -if you are an accountant and economist working for a company that trades across Europe you aren't working for a small business...who (if you are full time) wouldn't have the spare money to pay for you. Believe me the red tape is a nightmare for small businesses - just keeping up with regulation changes is a full time job for someone!
DP sold up partly cos he couldn't take the hassle any more - and he wasn't earning the NMW (as it was 8yrs ago) for the number of hours he was working (and I was helping for free!)

unlucky83

I absolutely agree on the issues around administrative burdens etc. I get how hard they are. I used to (many, many years ago) audit European grants given to councils. The cost of my time to audit would often be the same as the grant they received.

Bornfree - we have been putting a price on democracy since we came up with it. We have been trading off freedoms for protections since time immemorial. Less so in Britain than some places because our freedoms and protections were forced on us until very recently (in historic terms). It is the bedrock of the social contract.

As an aside - I can't remember whether it was you or someone else suggested I watch Brexit the movie. My apologies, but I got 6 and a half minutes in before the integrity of the entire undertaking (which I was enjoying) was shot down by relying on Kelvin Mackenzie as one of the voices. Sorry, but if you think that a film is best served by having a man willing to vilify an entire city and give up his journalistic integrity for the scraps off Murdoch's table, then your film was pretty weak to start with.

ON brexit the movie - got another 4 minutes in and I was right - the factual inaccuracies are SO frequent and glaring that th lying piece of shit from The Sun IS the best thing about the film.

I would be interested in seeing the remain campaign addressing all the issues raised in Brexit the Movie - if it is so inaccurate it should be a doddle...I don't think they have? If they have I'd be interested to see it.
I don't agree with it 100% but it made me think and look into things more (mainly how democratic or rather undemocratic the EU is) - and made me decide 100% out - whatever the short term cost.

we are in an absolutely dire economy..i really for the life of me cannot understand how the economy will falter at all by an exit from the eu?
in fact i feel we would positively prosper without all the red tape rubbish that is plied on us from the eu.
the eu was initially proposed as a trade consortium and has evolved into nothing other than a corrupt cesspit of finacial loss and external governance of the uk.
you really need to wake up and take and long hard look at how this country is literally breaking under the exodus of mass imigration from poor eu countries where there is mass poverty and zero work oppurtunity.
i know this will get the racist card thrown at me and blah blah blah , but i am a realist and live on the edge of leicester and see every day how mass imgration from europe and elsewhere has changed the city i was born and bread into.
why should i have these different cultures forced upon me to the extents in which thney have been? why should me and my children be fed halal meat unknowingly when i strongly oppose this method of culling.
why should the minorities be allowed to overpower the majorities choice so as we appease them and ensure they are not offended?
the jobs we have are limited , the hospital beds are limited, the state housing is limited , yet i read on here that people say we should remain in the eu and allow further mass immigration into the already overburdened uk.

Real, don't know how the connection is between the EU, or people from EU, and meat killed according to a halal method.

There was a theme song to a movie about Ned Kelly. There was one really good line.

"If the cat don't miaow, blame it on Ned Kelly". Maybe there are elements of "If the cat don't miaow, blame it on the EU' going on.

My drain pipe was leaking a few weeks ago, it's the bl*ody EU's fault!