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Brexit

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Original poster

To ask if you think we will stay or go?

535 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 17/05/2016 17:21

sorry its the EU.

i don't know that much but my gut feeling is we should stay.

however i think we will leave because strength of feeling seems to lay with the leavers wheras i think stayers might beless likely to vote or be in the not that fussed camp.

OP posts:
BornFreeButinEUchains · 22/05/2016 09:35

Staying on health care, as EU citizens we can access health care in the EU on the same basis as locals, so if break your leg in France and you will be treated the same as a French citizen. If you have a long term health condition that needs regular treatment you can access that abroad, I'm thinking things like kidney dialysis It is now possible for someone on dialysis to travel abroad for a holiday and receive dialysis on holiday

this means nothing because each country has a different standard of health care and a different system!!

if all was equal in terms of value of money, quality of life, benefits, health care, schools, there would be no issue.

DF was profusely bleeding in Malta, ringing me, panicking they wouldn't look at him without INSURANCE DETAILS. Elderly man, vast range of health conditions!

If same happened to Matlese here. they would be treated IMMEDIATEly here, without any details being taken at all.

Limer · 22/05/2016 09:56

We do have control over our borders, that's why British border controls are in Calais.

Sashh please explain how the border controls in Calais (or anywhere else, for that matter) can prevent thousands of uneducated, unskilled Romanians/Bulgarians/Poles from getting on the ferries every day, with the intent of settling in the UK?

BlueStringPudding · 22/05/2016 10:06

I had an accident in France a month ago and it cost me 800 euros. I had my EHIC card on me, but it doesn't cover breaking legs etc, so I had to pay by credit card. I had travel insurance which should cover me. The French pay for insurance I think so therefore so we also need to if in France..

BombadierFritz · 22/05/2016 12:34

Why didnt your ehic cover a broken leg bluestringpudding? Did you use a public sector hospital and try to claim the money back afterwards? I thought this was covered tbh

BlueStringPudding · 22/05/2016 22:34

I had a skiing accident so was stretchered to a medical centre, where I saw a doctor and had an x-ray. DH was sent to the pharmacie to get drugs and a leg brace. My knee was fractured and a couple of ligaments snapped. I didn't need to go to hospital which was good as the nearest was a couple of hours away.

We weren't able to use the EHIC at all, even though we asked..

user1463231665 · 23/05/2016 06:30

YOu pay the equivalent eg in France everyone visiting their GP pays a fee so that is obviously then reciprocally what UK people in France pay (and same here with a ski accident- they take you to private clinics which are outside the public health system (and the care is better actually and most skiers have insurance which covers most of the cost and the EHIC isn't used).

In our local A&E there are signs all over about foreigners and needing to prove right to NHS treatment (we live in one of the areas of London with biggest number of immigrants whereas if you went to Northumberland where I'm from 97% of people are white British born so it's totally different).

BlueStringPudding · 23/05/2016 07:46

The big difference in France though is that there seems to be an expectation that you will pay and they are very efficient at collecting your details. They took my credit card details in the ambulance.

In the UK this doesn't happen and my perception is that those who are not entitled to have free NHS often get it for free.

I think if we vote to stay in the EU that over time we will see harmonisation in how healthcare is provided, funded and charged for, so suspect we will move to align to the models in other European countries.

scaryteacher · 23/05/2016 08:22

Bluestring, the Belgian system seems to work well, but there would have to be a reduction in NICs or tax if we are to start moving to a part state, part personally funded model.

scaryteacher · 23/05/2016 08:29

The reason for this is that whether people like it or not we know what we are getting as part of the eu. No we don't. We are not voting for the status quo if we stay in; there will be massive change, moves to ever closer union etc. We are on a journey and can't get off the bus, and we don't know where the bus is going!

On the whole in the UK the better educated and higher your earnings the more you want to stay in and that's because it's the sensible choice for Britain. Two postgrads (one with chartered status) here voting to leave, one of whom is very highly paid indeed (and I am a trailing spouse), and has been seconded to the EU for some years in the recent past, and having seen how it works wants out.

Ruralretreating · 23/05/2016 09:29

scaryteacher we have an exemption from ever closer union as part of the reform package so we are not on that bus. We also have a veto over countries joining.

scaryteacher · 23/05/2016 12:18

If you think that there won't be a work around the items in the 'reform' Hmm package, as the Treaties haven't been reopened, then you are deluded.

wasonthelist · 23/05/2016 12:21

On the whole in the UK the better educated and higher your earnings the more you want to stay in and that's because it's the sensible choice for Britain.
Another highly educated high earner pro-Brexiter here to disprove your theory - and disagree with your contention.

wasonthelist · 23/05/2016 12:24

we have an exemption from ever closer union as part of the reform package so we are not on that bus. We also have a veto over countries joining.

None of the minimal "reforms" promised to Cameron is cast in stone, the veto over other countries joining would make us wildly unpopular if we're alone in using it - how often has it actually ever happened in recent history?

Turkey has been promised visa-free access to Schengen by June.

wasonthelist · 23/05/2016 12:27

The reason for this is that whether people like it or not we know what we are getting as part of the eu.
Even if that was true (and it isn't) it's an extraordinarily weak argument - "this is crap but at least it's crap we know and are used to" doesn't add anything to the debate really - it's like when politicians say "at least we're not the other lot".

Toddzoid · 23/05/2016 12:54

I'll be gutted if we leave. I don't know anyone that is voting to leave however online consensus seems to back Brexit. Having said that, online consensus also backs Bernie Sanders and lib dems were set to win in 2010 judging by that so I'm trying not to let it worry me too much...

Ruralretreating · 23/05/2016 13:39

you think that there won't be a work around the items in the 'reform' hmm package, as the Treaties haven't been reopened, then you are deluded.

I am not deluded. Exemption from ever closer union is agreed = fact. Alleging there will be a "work around" = supposition at best and scaremongering at worst.

It would not make sense to have the reforms in a Treaty which would then have to be redone in the event of a leave vote. It would have been a monumental waste of time and effort.

Ruralretreating · 23/05/2016 13:40

And the U.K. isn't in Schengen so not sure what your point is there wasonthelist

emeraldlakes · 23/05/2016 13:57

I am voting to leave because the EU in's present form is undemocratic amongst other issues. But it's the democracy point that bothers me the most

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2016 14:01

"The EU is not a democracy. If democracy matters to you, vote Leave."

Says a subject from one of the few constitutional monarchies left in the world Smile

Winterbiscuit · 23/05/2016 14:06

From the Full Fact website:

Explaining the EU deal: an "ever closer union"

"The proposed EU deal would exempt the UK from aspiring to “an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe”. This phrase has a symbolic political impact, but has little or no legal effect. Saying that it no longer applies to the UK doesn’t change anything about how the EU works, or the powers it has."

and

"Given the fact that the phrase “ever closer union” doesn’t imply a move to a federal EU, and isn’t a legal basis for any increase of EU power, exonerating the UK from a commitment to achieving ever closer union will not change the UK’s relationship with the EU."

emeraldlakes · 23/05/2016 14:08

The difference is CoteDAzur , the Queen isn't technically governing us is she? Or at least not in the way the the EU commissioners are anyway

wasonthelist · 23/05/2016 14:11

And the U.K. isn't in Schengen so not sure what your point is there wasonthelist
Actually, I nearly added "I know we're not in Schengen, but I thought I'd wait and see if the inevitable happened - and it did.

Of course I am fully aware we aren't in Schengen, but my point was to illustrate the direction of travel. David Cameron is in favour of Turkey joining the EU - in fact he's angry at the lack of progress. So it's more a matter of when not if they join, we won't be likely to veto Turkish membership, and no doubt there will pressure for us to offer visa-free entry to Turkish passport holders just like the rest of the EU will soon be doing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2016 14:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2016 14:23

"the Queen isn't technically governing us is she?"

Still... You are not technically a democracy, are you?

waitingforsomething · 23/05/2016 14:23

Even if that was true (and it isn't) it's an extraordinarily weak argument - "this is crap but at least it's crap we know and are used to" doesn't add anything to the debate really - it's like when politicians say "at least we're not the other lot".

I agree. I am just saying I think fear of the unknown might, at the end of the day, make people vote remain. After all there are many theories of what will be if brexit happens. I'm not saying it's a good argument but it is a reason. Immigration is not a good argument either but still the basis on which many are voting