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Brexit

The only way to get the EU to take the UK seriously is to vote to leave

670 replies

SpringingIntoAction · 09/05/2016 19:12

Cameron tells us repeatedly that he wants to remain in a reformed EU.

Many others across the political divides also acknowledge the need for the EU to reform itself.

Some say that's why we need to remain in the EU - to change it from within.

I think the EU's refusal to engage with Cameron's plea for his EU reforms and the failure of his 'special deal' to achieve anything like the changes he originally said he wanted, show the EU is unwilling/incapable of reform.

I think the only way to get the EU to start taking our demands for reform seriously is to vote to leave.

They need to start imagining what the EU would be like without one of its largest funders - the UK. We do that by voting to leave.

OP posts:
butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:38

Well I would like to lobby my MP, Jeremy Hunt, about the imposition of the junior doctors' contracts, but what would be the point? Clearly my complaints would fall on deaf ears. If he's happy to ignore the entire medical profession, he's hardly going to listen to me, is it?

By contrast, my MEP, Keith Taylor is very active in the European Parliament. I have in fact emailed him about things that are important to me. I get regular updates about what he and other like-minded MEPs are doing. The Greens have been particularly active in challenging TTIP, for example.

Perhaps we would have more influence in the European Parliament if we hadn't collectively wasted a third of our votes on UKIP, who claim their expenses but never show up to work.

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:39

We will never be able to change it, it will be Orwellian.

This is literally how I feel about our national political system.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:40

In what way can your MEP make a difference if it's the commission who propose legislation and it's the lobbying for big companies that they listen to most?

It would appear that all butter cares about is that the colour of politician she voted for is in the seat.

Buttered,

Nothing personal but that how it comes across.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:43

This is literally how I feel about our national political system

But our Government changes quite regulary. This won't happen in the EU. Ever.

Why don't you move to an area where your choice has better representation in the local populace.

You're really coming across as "spoiled" because you're not getting your own way.

Winterbiscuit · 11/05/2016 16:43

We will never be able to change it

I can't believe anyone would choose to give up our country's freedom in such an irreversible way. Will it be another 41 years until the next referendum, in which time the EU may well have changed unimaginably? Or will there even be another referendum, ever?

It could well be that Labour are elected at the next election; they've certainly done well in the recent council elections. I think they may need to choose a different leader though.

Contrastingly, due to the dissatisfaction of many in the EU, the far right is rising there.

So it may well be that in a few years, the UK will be quite left-wing and the EU rather right-wing. And the people who voted "remain" may wonder why they did so.

BreakingDad77 · 11/05/2016 16:43

it's the lobbying for big companies that they listen to most?

Lobbying is a cross party problem regardless of the EU and hence the lack of investigation into tax evasion etc.

I know its minor but EU has called time on the crap on moblie roaming, they stood up to microsoft, amazon etc and also made those companies back down on the right to second hand your digital purchases. These companies want you to lease stuff, they don't want you to be able to resell a DVD/Book/Game etc your bought. If the EU was so in their pockets why did they do this?

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:44

Our government changes once a decade or so between two political parties, neither of which I have ever voted for. So tell me more about how I can use my vote to bring about political change.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:45

Perhaps we would have more influence in the European Parliament if we hadn't collectively wasted a third of our votes on UKIP, who claim their expenses but never show up to work

People voted for them because they thought that's how best they'd be represented, it's called democracy.

it wouldn't matter if all British MEPS were in the Green Party - they don't actually do anything, it's a sham.

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:46

Interesting that the EU "only acts in the interests of big business" but when they apply their own competition rules to stop two companies merging and becoming too powerful, or prevent a big company from abusing its powerful position in the market to the detriment of smaller companies, they're "interfering".

donotreadtheDailyHeil · 11/05/2016 16:46

we'll be able to negotiate trade deals with America (our bestie and the leader of the global economy), China and Australia

who say's? We are not the US' bestie. What a load of nonsense. Anything but. Do you know we only stopped paying World War 2 loan repayments a few years ago? The US will do nothing to help the UK. China has no real incentive and I can't see why the Australians would put themselves out.

If we leave the EU we will be hung out to dry.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:46

So tell me more about how I can use my vote to bring about political change

You're confused as to what democracy means.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:47

If we leave the EU we will be hung out to dry.

Alternatively, they could be battering down our doors begging us to buy their goods.

BreakingDad77 · 11/05/2016 16:47

But our Government changes quite regulary. This won't happen in the EU. Ever

So your saying Nu-Labour, Con-Dem and Conservatives were really different........

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:47

You're confused as to what democracy means.

You obviously didn't get the memo that only "remain" voters are supposed to be patronising.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:48

I can't believe anyone would choose to give up our country's freedom in such an irreversible way

Me neither, but it's their democratic right to give up their democracy.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:50

So your saying Nu-Labour, Con-Dem and Conservatives were really different........

it's still a lot better than the would be Politburo in the EU Government, with no democratically responsibility.

Take the recent elections in Wales. There was 3 votes in total. I voted for 3 different people.

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:54

I think you should stick to words of no more than three syllables, MrSnow.

Winterbiscuit · 11/05/2016 16:54

The Greens have been particularly active in challenging TTIP, for example.

Has it worked?

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:56

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-trade-deal-under-threat-due-after-germany-claims-us-not-making-any-serious-concessions-a7019291.html

Let's just remind ourselves that our democratically elected UK government is not doing anything to challenge TTIP and would love to sign up to it in all its glory.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:57

I think you should stick to words of no more than three syllables, MrSnow

That's a shame, you're lack of credibility has four.

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 16:57

Your, not you're.

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 16:58

You're not really helping your case.

Winterbiscuit · 11/05/2016 17:00

"our democratically elected UK government is not doing anything to challenge TTIP and would love to sign up to it in all its glory."

Would that have anything to do with their "remain" stance?

MrSnow · 11/05/2016 17:01

So to sum up. Buttered is a Spoilt little Princess who thinks it's unfair that her choice of politician doesn't get voted in because the majority of people who live in her area don't agree with her.

Because she sees that as so unfair she'd rather live in a land of no democracy.

butteredmuffin · 11/05/2016 17:02

It's not just the "remain" side of the Tories who love TTIP.

So tell me more about how we can use our wonderfully democratic electoral system to get rid of the Tories when Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith are in charge and falling over themselves to sign up to "TTIP-on-steroids" with the USA.

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