How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

I agree that the UK education system could be improved, but I reckon there must be quite a few good teachers with pink hair and quite a few rubbish ordinary-looking teachers.

Would that be the OECD whose predictions on the economic future you wouldn't accept?

Love how you'll use sources as and when you choose that they're valid. I could go into issues with the PISA stats but I dount you'd get it.

The British education system actually doesn't fail many people, however your point about education hungry children is important though. There are far too many British kids who are compacent about their education.

Funny how you also reckon with all these maleducated folk that the UK will be just fine outside of the EU.

Yet another circular argument that makes no sense

Not necessarily. My training in a very specific field was received in my home country and paid for by its taxpayers, with the formal obligation on my end to work in a public job to pay back my "debt". I then went to work in the UK with the blessing of my government, because they judged that working for another EU country's government-related institution benefited the broader EU public and therefore "counted" as repayment.

This is the sort of benefit you get from being in the EU that is not reflected by "we pay in X and receive Y in subsidies" bean-counting.

Many countries do not insist on a 'pay-back' period post-training. What you are describing has been going on for decades, inter-Governmental exchange programmes with not jut EU countries but also the Commonwealth and the wider world. It's not a benefit that derives from being in the EU.

Don't know about the Commonwealth but I can tell you for sure that Britain would not have been getting my free skills without the EU!

The British education system actually doesn't fail many people,

I would hate to se what you count as success. Too many children leave with no qualifications at all - in the UK - in 2016! Some children do benefit from a British education system, providing their families are rich enough to pay for a decent private education.

however your point about education hungry children is important though.

You get them at 4. Your job is to exploit their natural curiosity - not blame the raw-material you get. Fail.

There are far too many British kids who are compacent about their education.

Yeah, because they are young, immature and don't realise how important it is or how badly they are being failed.

Funny how you also reckon with all these maleducated folk that the UK will be just fine outside of the EU.

I didn't say that. Your critical analysis - fail.

Depressing thought that in a post-Remain UK, our youngsters who don't do well at school will be consigned to the scrapheap with the message, "Tough luck, you should've tried harder".

You imply it all the time, you are always talking about how British Industry is very succesful etc, how firms are willing to invest here and that this is why we will be alright on exit. Would they really be investing in the UK if the workforce were so poor?

68% of the population gain a grade C or above at every subject they take at GCSE, A level numbers have gone up and are doing well. A survey by Pearson put the UK at number 6 in the world when you include higher education.

Do you know what matters more than any school? Parents, who have a bigger impact on any educational attainment than any other organisation/person.

Limer not quite, because in a Remain perspective (which I realise is not yours) said youngsters will get to live in a dynamic economy and get more opportunities that way. While after Leave they may have less competition, but the economy would also be in a worse shape so they may not win out.

Even more depressing that you think people should have a right to a job because of where they were born and not on merit.

68% of the population gain a grade C or above at every subject they take at GCSE

In other words 32% of UK school children fail to clear the very low bar that has been set for them.

A survey by Pearson put the UK at number 6 in the world when you include higher education.

Because all the poor sods who were educated in the State system hardly ever reach HE.

Do you know what matters more than any school? Parents, who have a bigger impact on any educational attainment than any other organisation/person

If you believe that it explains why our children are failed by their teachers. It's a convenient excuse on which to hang your failures.

Chalalala (Duran Duran fan?) - surely all the years we've been in the EU should have made that happen already? Is it still jam tomorrow?

It's rather bizarre that Spring thinks our young people are all poorly educated and incapable, yet following a Brexit they would suddenly become thrusting entrepreneurs!

Quite.

And that if we give them all good jobs instead of their better educated and more highly skilled European competitors, the U.K. will be more successful.

88% of university students are state educated.

And no I don't agree that 32% of children have been failed by schools, kids don't just get put at the back and not dealt with, there is a huge amount of intervention that goes on for students.

Actaully I don't know why I'm even engaging you on this because as can be seen from above you have no idea what you are talking about. Again.

Oh and before you start with " lesser universities" clap trap 75% or so of Russell Group undergraduates are state educated.

"If you believe that it explains why our children are failed by their teachers. It's a convenient excuse on which to hang your failures."

No, its been proved time and time again. Even at primary school the teacher only spends 20 hours or so a week with the child, and even then only for a limited time, parents spend far much more time and are a far bigger influence on children's attitudes to education.

Limer not a Duran Duran reference, but maybe it should be

Lurked

"Another long post from bronze containing pseudo intellectual claptrap in a vain attempt to give a level of reasonableness to what are actually very nasty opinions."

I took the trouble to express myself.

You trash my effort in one sentence with unwarranted accusations with no counter arguments.

If you want to enter into debate, please have the courtesy to address my points with your opinion or counter argument so that other posters and readers can get a balanced view. Using a dismissive one liner tells me you're either out of bullets or don't have the ability to counter an argument.

I post and tweet elsewhere and as soon as someone plays the race or xenophobe card or starts to get abusive, I know they're out of bullets. It's tiresomely like the school bully shouting or punching someone when they hear something they don't like or agree with.

To enable me to learn about the views and feelings of the general public, most weekends I am outside asking people a simple open question "what do you think about the EU" I approach them with no leaflets or badges so the conversation starts neutral.

It is unsurprising how many viewpoints I hear about and discuss with people whether they want to vote in or out or are undecided.

And now Cameron with his ever increasingly desperate reasons to remain, I have to wonder if he's out of bullets too. The UK leaving the EU will be the cause of social instability. Just see what is happening in Europe now. That won't stop if we remain. All that will happen is we'll have it here too.

The UK leaving the EU will be the cause of social instability.

You say that like it's a good thing.

Bronze lets start then:

"I know they're out of bullets. It's tiresomely like the school bully shouting or punching someone when they hear something they don't like or agree with.""

No, you repeatedly have comments regarding your "daughters saftey" and "right to wear what they like" on your pieces which suggests that you think EU migration is the same as the refugee crisis, and that you think the refugee crisis is soley responsible for any kind of sex attack etc. You make massive sweeping generalisations about the character of people of different nations and religions, which gives me the right (nay, the duty) to call you out on your xenophobia, in no way am I out of bullets.

You have repeatedly on numerous threads quoted both the £350 million a week and the UK outvoted 55 times points. Which myself and numerous other posters have shown to be incorrect, yet you then pop up somehwere else and use them again.

On other threads you have discussed the possibility of UK trade deals with the EU being exactly as it is now, yet without the costs, which it has been pointed out that the EU have already said will not happen. Yet you repeat it time and time again,and cover it with the phrase "Trade with the EU yes, ruled by them no" which again misrepresents the way the EU works and makes an appeal to emotion. You have frequently also made appeals to history.

So your arguments are flawed ( appeals are fundamental flaws), you use flawed data, and you make sweeping generalisations.

Pretty much pseudo intellectual no?

You don't debate, because you don't take anyone elses opinion or any other facts into account, just the ones that back you.

I do agree Cameron looked like a prat today, but then so did Boris.

Butter

You say that like it's a good thing

No I was just recapping what the PM suggested would happen if we leave.

I have daughters and despair at the erosion of rights and freedoms won by the fight and determination of women before me. There are 9 or 10 threads on Cologne full of women voicing concerns. We cannot let these concerns be minimised or dismissed because they dont suit the agenda of the EU. Noone is saying all migrants are rapists but the facts are that rape and sexual assaults have spiralled in Germany and Sweden over recent years and a hugely disproportionate number of attacks are committed by migrants.

Pretty map on this link of rape of women and children committed my migrants.
www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne-is-every-day-europes-rape-epidemic/newsstory/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d

Lurked

"No, you repeatedly have comments regarding your "daughters saftey" and "right to wear what they like" on your pieces which suggests that you think EU migration is the same as the refugee crisis, and that you think the refugee crisis is soley responsible for any kind of sex attack etc. You make massive sweeping generalisations about the character of people of different nations and religions, which gives me the right (nay, the duty) to call you out on your xenophobia, in no way am I out of bullets. "

Please show me where I have stated said that " refugee crisis is soley responsible for any kind of sex attack.".

How many occurrences of mass rape terror have there been in Europe? It is the first time it has been used as an instrument of terror.

As a response to Cologne, German, women have been told how to dress. Why should that be the case? Why do you suppose that they did that? Was it to suddenly protect women from German men mass abusing women?

You have a problem accepting the ways of some races are incompatible with the way we live in the west. I am not commenting on whether the way they live is right or wrong I am saying it is incompatible. I know from experience that this statement is a fact. Any women who has spent enough time in some countries in the world will be able to attest to this.

Let's open it up. Has any poster or reader had any experience to share?

Women in the west have fought for equality in all respects. Unfortunately this is not the way women are treated in many parts of the world. Try googling it if you don't believe that such a xenophobic statement is valid.

I'm not minimising the concerns, but I think in terms of the EU debate bringing up Cologne is fairly poor. Did you know that there were several sex related attacks in Oktoberfest this year, and last year for example and that not one link was made to "immigrants".

I have been a women's rights campaigner for years, and have volunteered for charities for decades, but I think that you are pretty much throwing this up as a reason to leave the EU and clutching and straws when you conflate EU immigration with refugees. It is awful, yes, but I think for you then to say:" My daughters aren't safe" is a pretty slippery slope from the Cologne attacks. Especially as people granted asylum in Germany don't have the right of freedom of movement.

Secondly to this, there are hundreds of thousands of people from these countries that you and others have identified, already here and coexisting perfectly peacefull.y

Lurked
"You have repeatedly on numerous threads quoted both the £350 million a week and the UK outvoted 55 times points. Which myself and numerous other posters have "

Incorrect. I am aware that the gross sent to the EU is £350m per week and we get £240m refunded leaving about |£110m net payments to the EU. Enough to build a new hospital every three weeks.