How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

buttered are all the staff on your course pro-EU?

And as one player leaves the field

TeamLurked shows up to continue the personal abuse and criticism.

You post long posts Spring,

Because you insist on links Lurked. Because you are intellectually incapable of understanding anything that someone has not already presented to you - and even then you disagree with them if they don't fir your schema

You make appeals to emotion repeatedly and use lots of hyperbole.

Show me where in the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines I cannot make emotional statements. I think you'll find the word is emotive actually. yes, I am guilty of calling pout hyperbole when you tell me the sky will fall in when we leave the EU - it won'y.

The continual use of project fear, which is then unironically followed by a projection of dystopian future caused by a nefarious EU which has subjugated the UK are actually rather hypocritical.

It' your side that talk of food ratioining - not me. You are the real Project Fear mongeres in this We have described our bright future at the end of the EU tunnel.

Everytime someone comes up with data or facts that disprove your points you shout vested interest, or shift the argument

Lol..And you don't. Look at yourself.

Ok Lurked. - here are some things that annoy me about you:

I can be having a perfectly reasonable discussion on here, I can even have the occasional perfectly reasonable discussion with you and the Boom! Out of the blue you start posting personal abuse aimed at me and insulting my intelligence.
That kills debate stone dead.

You also have a child-like innocence in holding up publications as 'the word of God' without considering who funded those reports or why certain factor were included or not in reaching their conclusions. You can make reports prove anything at all

I am sick of your abuse of me. I sick sick of your goading

You want to stay in the EU - fine.

I want to leave - fine.

When a poster like you starts ignoring the debate calls those with different views stupid than you can carry on talking to yourself.

And I sincerely hope that anyone reading this considers the charachter of the type people on the REMAIN side who are determined to try to sully the other side. You will fit in very nicely to your wonderful dictatorial EU where your view is correct and everyone else's is dissent.

A4 Broadly speaking, I suppose so. But the point of seminars is to facilitate critical discussion. To prepare for seminars, we read EU legislation and case law of the European Court of Justice, as well as articles by people with a wide range of different views. In seminars we'll discuss the aims of the legislation, whether we think it achieves what it set out to achieve, what we think of the way the Court has interpreted it over the years, how it has developed over time, and what we think of the articles. The students do more of the talking than the professors, to be honest. It's a law degree, not a politics degree, so we tend to focus on the what and the how and the why, rather than what should or shouldn't be.

Also, the focus of the course isn't really on the UK at all (even though it is taught in London) and many of the other students are from other countries. We don't really spend any time debating the pros and cons of Brexit.

Um, you have posted abuse to me repeatedly, you only claim victim when your arguments have nowhere left to go.

And i use links, because I can, I'm hardly intellectually incapapable of describing what they mean as I usually do shorten it, and explain them and then include the link for others to check out. Its fairly informative.

Show me where in the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines I cannot make emotional statements. I think you'll find the word is emotive actually.

yes, I am guilty of calling pout hyperbole when you tell me the sky will fall in when we leave the EU - it won'y.

Springing, you're arguing with yourself. In the first point, YOU use the term 'emotional statements' and then immediately correct yourself.

lurked is the one calling out hyperbole, in your posts. I can't see any posts where you do so.

I don't know what 'TeamLurked' is. Do you mean 'more than one poster with broadly similar views'?

'insisting on links' is, put another way, asking (repeatedly) for evidence to back up your and other posters' statements, in the hope of being able to engage in meaningful conversation about them.

As for publications being presented as evidence 'without considering who funded those reports or why certain factor were included or not in reaching their conclusions', on this specific point lurked has said more than once that, as an example, the BBC's EU funding is a drop in the ocean in the context of their total budget.

It is quite difficult to have a rational discussion with someone who posts like you do.

Ah - another member of the REMAIN team

Welcome Hovercraft

Are you going to play nicely this time?

've honestly given up with Springing.

No you aren't going to play nicely Sigh. You haven't given up on me darling, . that's why you're here.

I'm pretty sure she's being paid by Brexit HQ to fill the pages of mumsnet (and has probably taken over Daisy's wage packet as well, once they realised that shouting "Mum, mum, mum" continually was not helping) with continuous pro brexit pseudo-intellectual drivel (backed up with links to Dan Hannan and the Daily Mail, natch), and emotionally based appeals once they've been destroyed (before repeating them again later).

No. I am not being paid by Brexit HQ. That is a slur. You cannot resist your slurs can you?

We've had some interesting discussions with some brexiters, and I've learned some things from them that I wasn't aware of, but if Springing told me the sun was going to rise in the East tomorrow I think I'd have to go and check with some other sources at this point.

Because there is none so blind as an ostrich with its head stck in the sane Hover.

Couple that with her rather nasty attacks on people who disagree with her

Er - I think you'll find it's YOU that has been deleted for posting racial hate and disablist hate language Hover - remember, when Mumsnet had to delete your posts?

All that wasted effort as your ramblings and rantings got zapped.

We have already established in the other thread that MNHQ are pretty trigger happy with the delete button and will delete anything reported by Spring, regardless of whether it is abusive or not. For example, I posted this:

"Springing, do you actually have anything of value to contribute to this thread, which is about people putting in place contingency plans to deal with how their lives might be affected by a Brexit vote? If not, toddle off."

Spring reported it (but not before quoting it in its entirety in her next post), MNHQ deleted it and were unable to answer when I asked them why.

We have already established in the other thread that MNHQ are pretty trigger happy with the delete button

They need to be with the amount of foul abuse that members of the REMAIN side constantly resort to in the absence of any pausible reasons for staying in the EU

So what exactly was abusive in that post, Spring?

That's interesting, buttered. I'd like to know what about your post warranted deletion.

Spring only starts playing the victim when she has nowhere else to go with her arguments.

Onlylovers, I call hyperbole on Spring's posts because of the way she exaggerates things in order to make her point, all the emotive slavery and gulags, giving up freedoms stuff is pretty much hyperbole.

Of all the posts I saw that got deleted, the worst thing was the slightly ill-advised use of the word "gimp" from someone. It's not a word I use myself, but I wasn't aware that it was particularly offensive until Team Brexit started going on about "disablist language". I had to look it up.

The trouble is, only Spring and her friends have bothered to report posts, so only ours have been deleted. So if you read through some of these threads, you will see the usual ranting and insults we've seen from Spring above, but deleted posts from us which makes it look like we said genuinely offensive things. We didn't.

Spring needs to grow up, and MNHQ need to actually read the posts which are being reported and decide whether they actually are against the Talk Guidelines, instead of just deleting them.

lurked, yes, I know, and incidentally I agree, if that's not clear from my contributions to this thread. That's what I meant by 'lurked is the one calling out hyperbole, in your posts. I can't see any posts where you do so.' ('you' being Springing).

Maybe if you're on the Brexit side you're allowed to be abusive because you're fighting for freedom, whereas if you're on the Remain side you're part of the establishment so anything even vaguely rude counts as oppression?

I suspect MNHQ (or whoever is responding to Spring's reports) is pro Brexit. We could test this theory by reporting some of Spring's posts, but frankly I can't be arsed.

@ Buttered, Lurked, Hovercraft: I am genuinely interested in EU issues and although I will be voting REMAIN, I would be the first to acknowledge that it is not a black and white issue. There are arguments on the BREXIT side - I think primarily around questions of national sovereignty. My view though is that those arguments are significantly out-weighed by the advantages - commercial, economic, political, we get from being part of a huge block of developed countries.

The disappointing thing about this thread and the others on the referendum is that they largely consist of uninformed half truths and childish point scoring by some posters. In the interests of harmony, I will not name them. But I sincerely doubt whether any of the undecided will be spending time on here. So I suspect we are all wasting our time. Pity because it is such an important issue for our country.

I think that's a fair assessment, Coffee.

(Both in relation to the EU issues and the level of debate.)

Dear Readers

I am trying to have a discussion on what is probably the most important discussion that we will make in our lives and simultaneously fighting off a lot of bullying, goading , sneering behaviour and personal attacks by a group of posters who insist that REMAIN is the best thing for this country.
Posters such as Lurked101, Butteredbun, MyHoverCraftisFullOfEels and some of their newer admirers - welcome OnlyLovers.

In their woeful absence of any coherent reason to stay in the EU except their almost fanatical love of the EU they think rubbishing any dissenting voice will stop the debate. Some of these posters are heavily invested financially the EU. Some of them are teaching your children - think of that, teaching your children and they cannot even hold a civil debate on a discussion board.

These are the sort of people who totally and utterly fail to recognise or value the freedoms they live under. If they did, they wouldn't be in such a rush to hand them to another country.

But you try to tell them and and like a bunch of know-it-all yah-boos-sucks adolescents they think they know it all. When the get older they will realise the error of their ways. According to MNHQ the immaturity f one of these posters even prevents them from knowing that certain words they've bandy about on this board like the word 'gimp' is actually disablist. A ten year old could have told them that.

One of these disgusting people also t posted a map of the world showing the world labelled with the racial characteristics of their populations e.g. 'slitty eyed people' . I was shocked. I was so shocked I took a screen shot. Evidently one of these people who claims to be an expert in the EU is so immature that they cannot even see their racist posting are offensive. Save it for your own cess pit if that's your fetish - don't sully a public board.

So that's why you got deleted you poor innocent why-did-MN-deleet-me? jokers. You got deleted for racist filth and personal attacks.

And I strongly suggest to anyone thinking of joining them to consider if you really want to be part of this team of REMAINers - who I find totally disgusting. I actually feel the need to have a shower when I have been discussing with some of you .You make me feel dirty.

Just remember when you are agreeing with x 's next personal attack or backing y's attack on me that have the screenshot shot their racist and disablist abuse - do you want to be associated with that?

Whatever happened to grown up debate ?

Oh dear spring, you've been deleted before, and yet again launching ad hominem attacks all the time.

We've spelled out quite clearly the benefits to remaining, that there are some negatives, but you don't engage in the argument and just try to shout louder.

I just want to clarify that I have not posted anything "disablist" or racist, and to be honest I haven't seen anything I would describe as such from the other posters Spring mentions either. I think you're making some very nasty accusations there, and you need to stop now.

Wrong as usual Lurked. I have not been deleted. One of your chums has though.