How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

Yeah, George Bernard Shaw believed in eugenics, be careful who you are quoting.

They are not working on the side of the man? And Boris Johnson and Niger Farage are?

Also critiquing vested interests and then quoting Daniel Hannan either shows a massive irony deficiency or that you are just desperately trying to find anything hat backs your point.

There is far more evidence for staying than going.

So which part of Hannan's comments are you disputing lurked?

There is far more evidence for staying than going

In your world, Lurked. Some of us are looking beyond Little Europe. There's a whole world out there. Don't be frightened.

Well the 5% quote is disingenuous as the vast majority of businesses are small business. Now they might not directly trade with Europe but European trade will influence and benefit their business.

MrsHathaway

"I didn't think I was bothered either way, but the Leave campaign are starting to sound like nutters and the Remain campaign sound kind of neutral mostly, which made me realise I am solidly Remain."

Just curious why you think Remainers are neutral and leavers sound likw nutters.

Bronze

Mrs Hathaway explained downthread -

Remain sound neutral to me because I'm Remain; Leave sound like loons because I don't agree with them. I can absolutely see that someone already planning to vote Leave would have the opposite experience.

The people that Mrs Hathaway doesn't agree with = 'sound like loons.'

Mrs Hathaway has said she would quite understand if we LEAVE voters were to start saying the REMAIN side 'sound like loons' but that would be abusing people with an alternative point of view and so far the LEAVE side has been very civil despite the provocations - so I shall decline to call them loons.

I'll be voting LEAVE

Lurked

We pay through the nose for our "benefits" where as the 25 poorer nations get paid and get the benefits. Sounds like a rubbish deal to me.

Remain

I don't trust this government

I don't trust this government

In that case, don't trust the Prime Minister and Chancellor when they say "remain"

We can vote the Tories out in a general election, and vote in a government we prefer. We can't do the same with the EU. Personally I don't trust Juncker and the undemocratic nature of the EU.

Lurked

"There is far more evidence for staying than going."

No there isn't. It's all pure guesswork and speculation; including and especially Osbourne's ridiculous 200 page document containing 'complex formulae' that predicts what our economy will be like in 2030. He can't even predict what will happen next year let alone what will happen in 14 years.

And is this the same type of 'evidence' that stated how badly the UK would be if we didn't join the Euro? We've heard all this type of scaremongering propaganda produced by 'independent' organisations in the past. Thank goodness we didn't join the Euro. We seem to be doing just fine without being in the Euro. Mind you quite a number of EU states that took on the Euro are in dire straights and being bankrupted by the ECB lending them even more money that they'll never be able to pay back. Either these countries default or the ECB will strip them of assets. Doesn't sound like the sort of club I want to be a member of.

Fenella

Leaving would be catastrophic for the economy and for our position in terms of international relations. The property market and stock market are already feeling damaging ripples at the mere idea of us leaving, for us to reject that stability would be disastrous.

The properly market is overheating because interest rates are at all time lows for such a long time. The stock markets are high not because of increasing corporate profits but because a lot of printed money ends up in the stock market pushing prices up artificially.

Artificially low interest rates and printing money out of thin air causes bubbles in asset prices that will eventually pop.

The EU can't keep prices high forever, they always vert to their mean and overshot in the process. Even the "great" Gordon Brown couldn't stop boom and bust and neither can the EU or the ECB.

So your thoughts about staying aren't really valid arguments because the stock and property markets will end up crashing whether we vote to stay or leave. We've had asset price booms and busts for hundreds of years.

igoogle

want to LEAVE but am having a serious wobble because the Brexit campaign is being led by Gove and Boris.

I would go with your gut.

Gove and Boris will be history in a few years however, we'll never have another chance to leave the EU. How we vote on 23rd June will affect the lives of our children and grandchildren forever.

Drinks

But the only certainty is that a vote for Brexit will lead to at least two years of uncertainty and chaos which will be bad for all of us. And as Mrs Hathaway points out the Brexiters are a bunch of loons - dangerous loons in some cases

Uncertainty there may be. However short term pain (if indeed there is any) leading to long term benefit is worth it. Having 2 years of possible stability by voting in will ensure that the downsides of begin the EU never go away. And remember, there won't be any further option to vote out if indeed things don't go the way you hope while in.

Personally, I would rather be worse of in the short term in order to secure a brighter future for my children.

The Brexiters are no more dangerous than the in camp. Cameron, Osbourne and chums have an agenda. What us truly telling is that Cameron did not give us a balanced view of in or out. He's just ramming stay down our throats. And he's stooping to some pretty low methods to achieve it.

MrsHathaway

It's worth remarking that if we were currently outside the EU voting on whether or not to join, I probably wouldn't be voting to join.

I've heard a lot of people say this. Many from people who voted to join the common market. Obviously they were sold a pup and this time are voting to leave. They never voted for a federal state of Europe. They voted for a free trade bloc.

So it you would not vote to join the EU, then why would you not vote to leave?

Officer

I think a leave vote will trigger another recession with all sorts of dis-investment, manufacturers for instance transferring to Europe. There really would be no incentive for them to stay.
I value the stability the EU gives us.
As an aside the leave campaign seems to contain members of a club I'd never want to join.

We've not recovered from the previous recession. The situation has been papered over with cheap interest rates and money printing.

Siemens are investing a billion Euro in a facility near Hull in full knowledge of the referendum and it has not stopped them. Airbus has also done the same. We've nearly lost thousands of jobs in the steel industry because we are in the EU. EU rules dictate how we are able to subsidise companies. These rules are stifling.

If these companies were really that worried, they would have put of their decisions on hold until after the referendum. Its very telling that they didn't

Companies exist to make money, they don't care about politic and will only move to another country if it suits them financially. It will have nothing to do with whether we're in the EU or not.

If our Government said tomorrow morning that companies in the UK will no longer have to pay corporation tax, we'd be inundated with companies wanting to be here irrespective of EU membership.

The "leave club" as you describe it will be history in a few years. What yoo won't be able to change is your mind a few years down the road if the EU does not turn out the way you expect.

What truly scares me more than anything else, is the EU having more and more control of ours and our childrens' lives. Make our laws, its own army, its own supreme court that will be able to override ours. All run by a cabal of unelected Eurocrats we cannot vote for and who can never be voted out.

lighthousefamily

What concerns you most about leaving?

Siemens are investing a billion Euro in a facility near Hull in full knowledge of the referendum and it has not stopped them. Airbus has also done the same

...and Boeing is making its European HQ in the UK and Avon Cosmetics is moving to the Uk from the US and Aston Martin are building a new factory in Wales.

They obviously don't fear the UK leaving the EU.

Forget the economists reports - follow the money.

The money says that LEAVE is nothing to worry about (unless you are Cameron, in which case you will have huge headache on 24 June).

Cupcakes

If we ever get another chance to vote, which I doubt, can you imagine what this country will be like after another 40 years of EU rule?

I'm truly frightened for my and my children's future about being absorbed into the EU. That's before Turkey and the other poor countries join. Our subs will need to increase to pay for the subsidies to these poor nations. I fear our country will be bled dry and there will be nothing we can do abut it. It is happening already. We got a bill for £1.7bn to pay just because we had, in the EUs opinion, good figures. Like any tax, this is the thin edge of the wedge.

The EU doesn't give a stuff about the UK All it wants is our money to further its cause.

Without us, it loses its second largest. contributor so no wonder the EU is paying off the BBC and other media outlefts to do its dirty work for them. The threat we won't be able to deal with any EU country is scaremongering. Trade will continue. Everyone loses if trade drys up between the UK and EU. Other countries trade with the EU with no trade agreements and so can we. The EU js desparate for us to remain in.

I even question Cameron and his chums motives. How come they are so desperate for us to stay when there are just as many reason to leave, if not more. Under what conditions is a Government doing right by its people by handing over our sovereignty to a self serving unaudited corrupt commission on a plate guilded with 500 billion pounds (yes you read that correctly 500 billion pounds which by the way builds 3 million homes) when during two world wars, our ancesers faught and lost their lives for the very same freedom our Government wishes to give away.

Our brave lost servicemen must be turning in their graves to think they gave their lives for nothing.

Great appeal to emotion there.. totally flawed argument.

Oh and I'm not going to wade through yet more of your stuff. But your point about 25 poorer countries is flawed too when there are 12 net contributors.

Great that you can't use facts or data to back your points.

Also on the investment, the things announced last year and prior will have been in the pipeline for a while, not going to get cancelled. However future investment may be compromised. Even the car firms have said that current investment plans will go ahead but the referendum decision will impact future investment decisions.

Spring

It would be an idea to start another thread. It'd be nice to have a place to discuss things like TTIP and Monsanto.

I wonder how much people know about the vested interests these corporations have with us remaining.

Bronze

I agree with you.

Our brave lost servicemen must be turning in their graves to think they gave their lives for nothing

I had someone tell me that he was voting in because his grandad 'fought for Europe'.

I had to correct him - his grandad (and my uncle) fought to liberate Europe from being dominated by a facist German regime.

We have neglected to tell our children how important our freedom and self-determination is to us. When you hand the right to rule you to another, foreign power, you also have to hope that the foreign power will continue to make laws that are in your country's interests - they make not.

I prefer to look forward to the brighter future that we will have when we leave the EU:

Regain our seat on the World Trade Organisation that we are not allowed to occupy while we are in the EU and use it to trade freely with the rest of the world instead of having the EU control our trade

Unshackle ourselves from one of the only trading blocs in the world (the other is Antartica) in which trade is actually reducing and start trading with the developing markets in the world

Make our own laws in the interests of our own country instead of having to accept laws from brussels made to suit 28 different countries.

Have the Supreme judicial authority vested in our own Supreme Court instead of being over-ruled by the European Court of Justice

Resurrect the industries that we surrendered to join the EU - our fishing industry

Use our redundant EU fees to fund our own domestic needs instead of handing it to the EU and be told by the EU what to spend it on.

Be able to hand British tax payers money to stimulate British jobs for British workers by buying our own country's manufacturing produce where we can - instead of being forced to compete with other EU countries and importing things we already make here

Introduce a points-based immigration system that welcomes those with the skills we need from all over the world, instead of having to accept every self-selecting EU migrants who decides to come and live in the UK

Return to a system whereby we could accurately predict how many additional homes, schools, hospitals, social provision we will need instead of constantly trying to play catch-up.

Strengthen our relationship with the Commonwealth and help some of the developing countries through trade and exchange, instead of handing them foreign aid.

Regain that pivotal role between the US, the EU and the Commonwealth, interested in all but absorbed by none.

These are all positive reasons to LEAVE the EU.

I can also do a PROJECT FEAR should we REMAIN -in the EU but why focus on the negatives when there is so much to look forward to when we leave.

It would be an idea to start another thread. It'd be nice to have a place to discuss things like TTIP and Monsanto.

We did have a TTIP thread in the AIBU but because it was in that rather combative section of Mumsnet some of the posters became quite abusive.

I wonder how much people know about the vested interests these corporations have with us remaining

Very few I would l would guess. But the good news is that many in the Green party, which was until recently an anti-EU party, have started to back the LEAVE argument.

Would you like to start a thread on the 30,000 lobbyists? I think people may be surprised at that.

Lurked

Great appeal to emotion there.. totally flawed argument

Okay so tell us why it is totally flawed.

I didn't make my entry clear. I meant to say by far the top three contributors are Germany, UK and France. According to the source I used,, 9 countries are net contributors but what you are not telling us is by what factor these countries are net contributors. Their net contributions are small in comparison with the top 3.

For every £2 we send to Brussels, we get £1 back with strict conditions. How ever you want to try to hide it, we pay a significant amount to the EU.

When more and more poor counties join with their hands in the begging bowl, we'll be in the firing line for ever more and more contributions. How else can the EU pay for things? It has no other way to raise revenue than to tax its members. The EU has zero productivity. It is an expense.

We already have a Government, we don't need another one on top, especially one that does not give a stuff about us and only wants our money to further its cause irrespective of the wishes of the UK.