*scratches head* Why is the Remain campaign so rattled?

[TheABC]

I genuinely don't get it. They have already spent £9 million on leaflets, wheeled out everyone from the IMF to the American President and the telephone polls are putting them in the lead. Admittedly, the campaign feels a bit "meh" in that they are talking about potential losses instead of positive future plans, but they still seem to be doing OK.

So why does it feel like they are panicking? Could it just be the way it's reported?

Pigletjohn (Pig for the sake of brevity?) I dont support the Daily Mail. I was a die-hard Guardian reader till NYE. Sadly they chose their pet 'ism' and threw women's rights to one side.

The D, do champion women's safety in the EU. I am aware it suits their agenda and there is some cognitive dissonance here but, like it or not, the DM reports on attacks on women, the Guardian chooses not to.

should read the DM do champion woman's right. Bloody red wine.

Naf

The Daily Mail certainly has a barrage of anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant stories. I gather that among them they include the ones of interest to you.

They have slightly amended their target of choice over the years.

I read anything and everything that comes my way and have no snobberies about any reading material. Given that there is no neutral position - for anyone (everyone has a perspective, even if they say it's one of neutrality) - DM is absolutely fine. The people minimising the immigration/attacks on women events are being disingenuous and somewhat fanciful. Even Stefan Kornelius, Merkel's official biographer has this say,

We later found out that the same kind of thing happened in other cities in Germany, in Dusseldorf, in Hamburg, in Stuttgart, although not on such a large scale,' Kornelius says.These people were definitely not integrated; they were extremely new in the country. Some of them weren't even registered. So we saw and we had proof of a breakdown of the internal order in Germany.This is extremely worrying to most Germans because pretty much they've proved those fears that we were not under control of the situation anymore. The government had to admit to those mistakes and to these major problems, and this is why we now see some major attempts to change course to reduce the numbers and to bring back the notion of safety and control on the government's side. It is a huge issue. Please don't minimise it.

Anna the BBC has had about 20.million from the EU since 2008. That's peanuts in comparison to what it gets from the license fee. To suggest this has an influence is laughable.

The attacks were blackest out at source though weren't they. Not by our media.

No one is minimising attacks btw. But it is important to remember that attacks of a similar nature went on at Oktoberfest with no allegation of it being done by foreign nationals.

What happened is absolutely terrible and of course it should be reported. My problem with the DM is that its outrage is highly selective. It finds it convenient to be outraged by migrant violence against women, yet it is normally blatantly sexist and its coverage of rape victims (by white perpetrators) tends to be offensively victim-blaming. Which leads me to suspect that their agenda is not defending women, but rather stoking the fire of islamophobia.

If the DM was equally vocal in defending the rights of women against all attacks, not just attacks by foreigners and muslims, and if the DM was equally vocal in defending European muslim women against the worrying rise of islamophobia, then I could respect its feminist grandstanding.

The scale, planning and organisation were unprecedented, and you know it. Are you still suggesting that people use a racist lens through which to interpret the world? That smacks of a serious under-estimation of ordinary people's reasoning and decision- making skills.

I am suggesting that Chalala's point is correct, using the incidents in Cologne etc is politically convenient for the Mail and others using it to call for EU exit.

"That smacks of a serious under-estimation of ordinary people's reasoning and decision- making skills."

When people consistently make arguments referring to people from one particular set of countries it is clear to me that there is an element of racism there yes. There are hundreds of thousands of people from Turkey and MENA countries in the UK already, allowed in outside of EU freedom of movement rules. Are you threatened on the streets of this country because of it? Do you worry about your daughters safety? You are tarring everyone from these countries with the same brush when you start to jump up and down about female saftey and also misunderstanding that people from these countries can be and are allowed into the UK outside of EU immigration rules.

If the Mail is not acceptable there is great access now to articles from Germany, finland, Austria ( Swedish press see their role as promoting anti racism by ignoring issues, now we in Britain imo have been down that route in Rotherham and elsewhere and it rings alarm bells for me.)

Take Sweden there is a big spike in male migration , look into the stats on sex ratios in young people. Now presumably after a time these new arrivals will be eligible to move elsewhere in the EU. I think this is what is being referred to as an EU issue. We are back to freedom of movement.

If Sweden wants to be a humanitarian superpower that is up to them, except by being in the EU they will pass on any woes ( if you see benefits that's great and it would be another reason to vote to stay in eu.) to their EU partners.

Of course there will be immigration and it's fine up to a point. What has been occurring in Sweden and Germany has been non pragmatic.

In fact the whole EU response has been what? Pay off Erdogan? All totally odd goings on with Turkey. ( I can't make head or tail of it and experience tells me if that's the case get out of the deal.)

I don't think conflating what happened in Rotherham with EU immigration is helpful.

No one is denying that the sent events occurred. But I think it is being used here in a slightly histrionic manner. With or without the EU the refugee crisis would be occurring.

I don't mind what sweden does as an independent nation. But as a member of the EU it is made relevant to me. My reasoning is part based on what I have seen happen in the north of England where criminal issues were swept under the carpet for years for reasons of expediency which included the fear of not fueling racism.
Sweden are still at it full tilt as far as I can tell.

You are incredibly patronising lurked.

Where are the immigrants from involved in those northern cases hilda? They aren't EU, they aren't here because of EU freedom of movement. So you are blatantly conflating the two.

Also going back to what I've said before. Here are hundreds of thousands of people here from these countries that you identify.

I feel it's very politically expedient to shift :"won't some one think of the women and children" at times like these. Ignoring the fact that sex attacks at Oktoberfest and other events have been reported for years, without any allegation of them being perpatrated by foreign nationals of different cultures.

Also to then start "worrying" about different cultures attitudes to women ignoring the massive multi cultural presence in our cities is disingenuous.

How is it racists to express concern about beliefs and ideas?

Also to then start "worrying" about different cultures attitudes to women ignoring the massive multi cultural presence in our cities is disingenuous I think these mutlicultural citizens are just as concerned about bad ideologies as everyone else.

No I said that I would believe them if I could find a source other than the mail, it has a terrible history of distorting things

never have I witnessed such distortion than the Guardian coverage of Cologne. It was a disgrace and has led many people incl many MN to stop reading it.

It was a disgrace.

Because many of he people doing so tar everyone with the same brush. As well as by conflating the Rotherham issue with cologne it then becomes,immigrants are bad not some men behave badly irrespective of cultural back ground. To blame it on the culture is racist.

Why wouldn't most of the people who are refugees be concerned? To suggest otherwise is to suggest some moral deficiency rather than identifying that it is a small minority of people that behave in his way.

The BBC has no agenda

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10688000/John-Humphrys-BBC-not-sufficiently-sceptical-about-Europe-or-immigration.html

"BBC coverage of the EU and immigration issues has been biased to the Left, admits Radio 4 Today presenter John Humphrys"

"Humphrys, presenter of Radio 4’s Today programme, said the BBC had “bought into the European ideal"

One person in the telegraph does not a conspiracy theory make

Lurked if you were interested in any of this - which I suspect you are not ( which is fine, we cant all be interested in "everything") You would know there are massive issues with some belief systems held by people living in the UK, who perpetrate FGM, forced marriage and so on.
Its in all the news papers all the time, Judges not doing enough, Judges treating different cultures differently, the police need to understand cultures to be able to help the persecuted women within...it goes on and on and on.

wow, John Humphreys is a respected broadcaster. He has worked in the organization for years.
We the public dont need anyone from the BBC to tell us its biased, we know it is.

John H however is publicly confirming this and admitting it.

It's also two years old and he also says it had been corrected..

Right but it was said the BBC had no agenda.

It does.

According to this it actuially tends to be more eurosceptic and pro business than the liberal elite agenda.

www.newstatesman.com/broadcast/2013/08/hard-evidence-how-biased-bbc

Although overall I think the BBC gets lots of criticism from both sides, both left wing and right wing think it has an agenda against them, which tends to point to it being neutral.

There is research showing the opposite, though:

Viewers of the BBC’s main news bulletin are likely to have come away with a more favorable impression of Vladimir Putin in the past year than of the European Union.

That’s the extraordinary conclusion drawn by researchers at a Zurich-based media monitoring firm that thinks Britain’s media hasn’t done enough to make the case for the U.K. remaining in the EU.

Coverage of the EU on the BBC’s mainly nightly bulletin, News at Ten, and its flagship current affairs program, Newsnight, was “overwhelmingly negative,” last year, the researchers concluded after reviewing 46,737 news reports on the two shows.

The reports about the EU were so negative, in fact, that Brussels came off worse than the Russian strongman.

Around 45 percent of the BBC’s news coverage of the EU was negative in tone, compared to 30 percent of the coverage of Putin, Media Tenor International said.

The findings don’t necessarily suggest any conscious editorial bias by the BBC against the EU, the researchers said. The complaint (which also applies to popular news programs in other countries) is more that by reporting on Brussels through the lens of national politics — for example, by giving prominence to statements made by the main Westminster party leaders — U.K. viewers are left with a warped and excessively negative view of the EU, which Media Tenor worries could color their decisions in the June 23 referendum.

www.politico.eu/blogs/spence-on-media/2016/04/media-monitor-bbc-harsher-on-eu-than-on-vladimir-putin/

I haven't read the study and don't know anything about this firm. They could be wrong for all I know. But the point is that the BBC is in a though spot, because it's a hugely divisive topic and no matter what it does it will be accused of bias by someone.