*scratches head* Why is the Remain campaign so rattled?

[TheABC]

I genuinely don't get it. They have already spent £9 million on leaflets, wheeled out everyone from the IMF to the American President and the telephone polls are putting them in the lead. Admittedly, the campaign feels a bit "meh" in that they are talking about potential losses instead of positive future plans, but they still seem to be doing OK.

So why does it feel like they are panicking? Could it just be the way it's reported?

Your poll shows a 7% difference between those who've said that Obama would make them more likely to vote one way or he other. It's hardly a huge difference.

His popularity in the states isn't bad either
About 48% approval which is way more than a lot.of previous presidentsection at the same stage. I don't think he is as unpopular as you think.

A fairly good analysis of the impact here:

uk.businessinsider.com/r-odds-move-sharply-towards-britain-staying-in-eu-cut-after-obama-warning-2016-4?r=US&IR=T

Not a partisan site for either side so..

I do think you are really desperately trying to convince yourself that it was a bad thing for Obama to get involved Spring, really you know how much damage it did.

What did you think of Gove on the Andrew Marr show this morning?

Your poll shows a 7% difference between those who've said that Obama would make them more likely to vote one way or he other. It's hardly a huge difference.

48 days to go. Let's have an Obama post every day even if it just nudges a few more % our way.

His popularity in America is immaterial to this referendum.

Cameron is going to warn of 'war and genocide, conflict in Europe, and will invoke Churchill and Blenheim, if we LEAVE.

That's gonna give us a few more % LEAVE voters.

Yippee.

People think he is a compete idiot and this will confirm their views.

You really don't have any compelling argument at all on the REMAN side. If you did you wouldn't be preaching peak Project Fear.

Project fear is what you start shouting as soon as you run out of arguments and as I've said before, incorrectly applied. You can't say that the remain side have been unconvincing when the overwhelming amount of analysis backs the fact that we will be worse off outside of the EU.

And think about it, its very difficult for the Brexit side to make a claim because they really don't know, and it shows how much of a joke the campaign is.

Put it this was, the leave campaign have wanted this referendum for 40 years, they have known about it happening for 3 years, yet still they are desperately flailing around trying to find arguments and only able to come up with is project fear.

You've had all this time and barely any economics research has come out backing your points.

On the costs and democracy of the EU your leaders have been shown to willfully misrepresent the data in order to present this nefarious and untrue image of the EU to the British population.

The legal arguments of Cameron's deal have been incorrect.

So economics, law, cost on none of those arguments have you won the unpersuaded voter.

Its not going well is it?

the overwhelming amount of analysis backs the fact that we will be worse off outside of the EU.

"Worse off" is subjective as it depends whether your priority is the short-term economy, the longer-term economy, sovereignty, defence, immigration, making our own laws in this country that aren't trumped by EU law, etc.

The remain side don't know what will happen either. The EU may well not go in the direction they'd have liked, and then they'll be stuck with it.

None of us know, because it has never happened before.

This is the problem, if it was so glaringly obvious to us that EU is the best way forward there would be no threads on here debating it. The pools would show majority to remain. They don't and it's not obvious. If it's such a great deal why are we even having this referendum? If it was going to completely annihilate our economy they'd cancel it.

They haven't.

The whole thing is laughable actually and I think a lot of people won't even bother to vote.

It's glaringly obvious to anyone who actually understands how the EU, the economy and international trade actually work. Unfortunately, the majority of voters don't fall into that category.

We are having the referendum because David Cameron promised it when he thought he wouldn't win the election and so wouldn't actually have to go through with it. Then he thought there was no way people would actually be stupid enough to vote leave. And now I expect he is crapping himself, but it's too late to turn back now.

I really hope he is lying awake at night sweating about whether he is going to go down in history as the prime minister who allowed the UK to self-destruct.

In an ironic way I think the overwhelming strength of the Remain case is acting against it. People think it's strange that all the independent research and most politicians of wildly different persuasions all agree that Leave would be a disaster, and they think it must mean there's some conspiracy somewhere. When actually there's no conspiracy - it's just that obvious.

Cameron is getting desperate with his risible claims that Brexit will lead to war. I'm not sure where Project Fear can go from here.

The German-dominated EU with its provocative expansion plans is the cause of instability in Europe.

Tensions between the EU and Russia have escalated. Both Turkey and Ukraine are real danger zones and the EU seems intent on antagonising Putin. Is the planned EU army being formed in anticipation of war with Russia?

We have unrest in many member states: Greece, Poland, Italy, Germany, Austria and Germany. We have a rise of the far-right in many countries across the EU.

Every member state acquiesces to Germany's demands. There has been peace because we let Merkel call all the shots. Look what happened last time Germany acted in an aggressive manner.

Over a million people, mainly young men, and many of whom are fuelled by anti-West rhetoric have been invited into Germany. They are getting bored and angry now. A recipe for trouble.

The EU has acknowledged at least 5000 jihadists are moving freely around the EU having taken advantage of the shambolic management of the migrant crisis.

The EU does not guarantee stability and peace. Definitely not.

Good article to balance Cameron's bs.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/far-from-keeping-britain-safe-the-european-union-is-a-threat-to/

Anna every time you use the words "Project Fear* in a non-ironic sense, God kills off 1,000 of your brain cells. And the average Brexit voter can't afford to lose any.

Interesting link Anna, especially this:

"There is no risk of western European states going to war with each other, as long as they remain free, democratic and constitutional. Constitutional democracies do not attack one another. Wars break out between dictatorships and other dictatorships, or between dictatorships and democracies, as in 1939.

By trying to build a supranational state in the absence of democratic structures or a popular mandate, the EU is sowing the seeds of precisely the sort of conflicts it claims to have abolished."

Every member state acquiesces to Germany's demands. There has been peace because we let Merkel call all the shots. Look what happened last time Germany acted in an aggressive manner.

I'm sorry but suggesting that Merkel is walking in the footsteps of Hitler is going a little too far in the Germanophobia.

If you don't like how Germany is influencing the EU, then let Britain be a strong voice and a counterbalance within the EU.

Removing yourself from the situation will not solve the problem, it will only make it worse. Europe's problems have always been and will always be Britain's problems too.

then let Britain be a strong voice and a counterbalance within the EU

If this hasn't come about to the UK's satisfaction in the time we've already belonged to the EU, why would it be any different in the future?

If you don't like how Germany is influencing the EU, then let Britain be a strong voice and a counterbalance within the EU. Chalalala, we cant because we dont have a strong leader. Cameron is a washout, he has repeatedly done U-turns, capitulated on deals and lied to us to appease Merkel and the EU Commission. He is not looking after the interests of the UK and, if he is unable to negotiate much reform when we are on the verge of leaving, how much leverage will he have if we vote to remain?

within the EU, Britain can and does influence things, even if it doesn't always get 100% its way.

outside of the EU, it's a certainly that Britain will get zero say. It's basically giving up its vote on the developing geopolitics of Europe. Highly unlikely it will help things go Britain's way...

Its also a load of crap that "every member state acquiesces to Germany's demands" Germany loses votes quite often too.

Your 5000 Jihadists, is from Europol but the head of Europol also said:"There are no concrete indications that terrorists are systematically using the stream of refugees to come into Europe undetected,"

So yet again you are conflating terrorism with refugees, nice!

We don't have a strong leader because we elected a weak leader. That's our fault, not the EU's.

Do you believe in God, Buttered?

Not sure, why?

PigletJohn Sun 08-May-16 22:06:14

I found some of the anti-EU campaigners have turned back to Fear of Foreigners for their last shot, now that their economic fantasies have been roundly defeated. I hear they will be trying to create a fear of untold millions of foreigners flooding into UK.

And here it is, gushing out in a torrent like the Crossness outfall.

I agree, its our fault Cameron is a spineless leader. I didnt say it was the EU's fault. It is the fault of those who voted for him in the last election (I didnt) and the unfair voting system. Electoral reform is badly needed.

I'm not conflating migrants and terrorists. 5000 Jihadists, over a million migrants. Dont twist my words.

the developing geopolitics of Europe. actually it is the developing geo-politics of the EU, not of Europe. And the geo-politics of the EU are really the geo-politics of the US.

Just wondering.

^the developing geopolitics of Europe.

actually it is the developing geo-politics of the EU, not of Europe^

No, for example the migration crisis is a European problem, not strictly an EU problem.

This goes back to my point: you think Britain can isolate itself from Europe's problems by saying "it's an EU problem, not our concern". But actually it can't, because its geographical, political and economic ties to Europe (not just the EU) are too strong. Europe's problems, before and after the EU, have always ended up being Britain's problems too. And better to be working at solving them from the inside. The alternative is to tell the EU "you solve the problems however you want, and we'll just deal with the consequences".