*scratches head* Why is the Remain campaign so rattled?

[TheABC]

I genuinely don't get it. They have already spent £9 million on leaflets, wheeled out everyone from the IMF to the American President and the telephone polls are putting them in the lead. Admittedly, the campaign feels a bit "meh" in that they are talking about potential losses instead of positive future plans, but they still seem to be doing OK.

So why does it feel like they are panicking? Could it just be the way it's reported?

I honesty believe if you are leaning out your are believing the facts as presented by the side which have little to no economic plan and who distrot the figures for their own needs

No I am out due to direct, irrefutable personal experience.

HildaOgdensMuriel

Your post about the other countries in EU really resonated with me. For instance, looking to countries like Sweden who like you say are looking very draconian all of a sudden, and Germany, Merkel doing deals to crush freedom of speech on FB, doing shady deals with Turkey.

Itsjustanotherusername

Your post about the economic aspects also struck a chord. I am very interested in the ££ side of things but its one aspect. I am more interested in quality of life, eg schools that don't need to build over their playing fields to fit more pupils in, hospitals that can cope and respond accordingly to the birth rate of the population and the young of this country, crushed by the credit crunch then finished off by un controlled mass immigration.

So not an EEA deal, what about Turkey's where :

Turkey gives the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country, because its part of the customs union.

Turkey accepts not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty.

Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU.

Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge.

I don't think I can find an example of your ideal arrangement.

There is certainly a lot at risk.

Another person arrested in the EU for criticising Erdogan. Turkey's imminent accession is one of my main concerns (though I have a long list of them) about staying in the EU. We have a tradition of free speech and I dont want it taken away.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/24/dutch-journalist-arrested-in-turkey-for-criticising-erdogan/

It's interesting to note that the word "xenopobia" relates to "fear", yet there is no sneering, scathing word to describe the "fear" that ones circumstances might change in terms of material wealth

Another great point.

The Turkish PM is threatening to stop the migrant deal if Turks are not given visas by June

Very interesting, but we will not be adopting a deal like Turkey's thank you. Turkey is on fast track for EU accession - EU submission is something I am trying to escape.

I think you'll find its Turkey that is pulling Germany's strings with the threat of allowing mass migration across the Med.

I just stated on another EU thread, the assertion that concern about immigration = xenophobia is lazy and disengenuous.

The Remainers, I do find, are often sneery and scathing. Says more about them than us.

FWIW, Hovercraft is a man, I think Lurked is too but I'm not sure. Being men, they perhaps have difficulty finding empathy with those of us who are concerned about the impact mass migration from different cultures will have on women's safety. The numerous Cologne threads on here illustrate how real that fear is and with good reason.

"Turkey's imminent accession"

What makes you use the word "imminent?"

Do you not know what the hurdles are that an applicant country must meet?

I think Anna might be a woman. Being a woman, she perhaps has difficulty finding empathy with refugees trying to flee a war zone, for example Syria.

I think you'll find its Turkey that is pulling Germany's strings with the threat of allowing mass migration across the Med.

Now there's a special friendship Who is pulling who's strings?

Pigletjohn, what a stupid comment. The women have largely been abandoned by the men, left behind in Syrian refugee camps. I have huge empathy for them, not so much for the aggressive and angry young men who have gained entry into Germany and Sweden and are busily raping women and children.

Do you not know what the hurdles are that an applicant country must meet?

We are facing a fluid situation in unprecedented times. Europe is desperate.

People talk of the EU collapsing if UK leaves.
More is the talk of the EU collapsing in the face of migration, and no way to control it on the outer edges of the EU.

We are in the middle of a volatile situation.

See you make that point about xenophobia and then say things like this:

"I am more interested in quality of life, eg schools that don't need to build over their playing fields to fit more pupils in, hospitals that can cope and respond accordingly to the birth rate of the population and the young of this country, crushed by the credit crunch then finished off by un controlled mass immigration."

The young haven't been crushed by immigration, hospitals aren't not coping (Oxford University did two studies which found that waiting times fell in areas with immigration), Schools have been effected by a swell in births but only 25% of them are from foreign born mothers and as the EU popultion makes up less than 40% of all immigration the number of children born to them will be lower (also statistically EU immigrants tend to be young adults who don't have families).

The Government had lots of time to prepare for the schools issue and has opened lots of free schools in areas that already have spare capacity. On top of this 85% or so of students got their first choice school!

I think being out of the EU will effect quality of life far more, rising inflation, rising unemployment, lower tax take to spend on resources, less opportunities abroad for our children etc.

"eg schools that don't need to build over their playing fields to fit more pupils in"

Don't vote Tory then.

Round here the playing fields have all been sold off (not for the private schools, obv.)

What a ridiculous comment Anna, I refuse to get into a debate about who is male or female because it bears no influence on this discussion.

Your comments about Cologne? Well only 3 of the people arrested in Cologne were refugees, on top of that there has been a long history of (not as large) but coordinated sex attack things in Germany, its happened a fair few times at Oktoberfest! There are lots of articles in the German press like this one:

www.vice.com/read/rape-culture-germany-cologne-new-years-2016-876

Of course we are all concerned about saftey, but I find your comments regarding refugees distrubing and the fact that you conflate EU freedom of movement with refugees. On top of this you realise EU immigration is less than half of all immigration to this country? Do you realise that lots of those coming in as part of this immigration are from Afghanistan, Pakistan etc?

I'm very much for women's rights and have campaigned on behalf of charities for such, but find it very difficult now that people seem to care about them when its politcally expedient to do so.

Turkey has been negotiating for 11 years, and has been part of a customs union for many of those, I'm not sure it will gain accession as swiftly as you think it wil.

No the point is about un controlled immigration and huge numbers of people coming to the uk in vast numbers in a short space of time. It was never in our interests to allow this.

I like immigrants, and immigration I would like to slow it right down though.

Do you understand that?

Do you also understand that some areas like Boston have been densely populated by immigrants in a short space of time? Whereas other places will have seen no change. This will average out across the UK.

(Oxford University did two studies which found that waiting times fell in areas with immigration)

I have witnessed, heard from staff and read in local news, about hospitals creaking under the volume of immigrants using services.

The young haven't been crushed by immigration

Debatable, Many commentators see a generation wiped out by it.

The leaked Whitehall document reveals that EU citizens are overwhelmingly the biggest winners in the British jobs market, responsible for 75 per cent of the growth in employment.

Graduates from Eastern Europe are taking low-skilled jobs, topped up by ‘generous in-work benefits, without having contributed, from Day One’.

This was from a DWP document leaked a few days ago. I think it is worthy of concern.

It is costing us, the tax-payer, and forfeiting chances for our children. It is not sustainable. There are around 7 countries queuing up to be part of the EU. All poor countries with high youth unemployment. It will get much worse if we stay in.

I cant see Obama signing up to a deal like this. Or Hillary Clinton.

Turkey has been negotiating for 11 years, and has been part of a customs union for many of those, I'm not sure it will gain accession as swiftly as you think it wil

Europe was in a strong position then.

Europe is on its knees fighting for survival now. It will not survive another summer of migrants, and terrorist attacks.

Things change. Things are changing. Daily.

Your comments about Cologne? Well only 3 of the people arrested in Cologne were refugees.

I didnt use the word "refugee".

Those of migrant descent did make up large numbers of the arrested; a full list of nationalities of those accused stands at 25 Algerians, 21 Moroccans, three Tunisians, three Germans, two Syrians and an Iraqi.

Blatant misrepresentation. You are getting desperate.

I dont think minimising what has happened in Cologne will win you any fans.

Anna I had to go back and read your post after Lurkeds comments, as it didn't make sense to me, and it still doesn't now.

The young haven't been crushed by immigration, hospitals aren't not coping (Oxford University did two studies which found that waiting times fell in areas with immigration), Schools have been effected by a swell in births but only 25% of them are from foreign born mothers and as the EU popultion makes up less than 40% of all immigration the number of children born to them will be lower (also statistically EU immigrants tend to be young adults who don't have families).

In other words 360,000 increase in the number of people coming to live in the UK I last year, along with the many hundreds of thousands who came to lie in in previous years plus the several hundred thousand that will arrive in future years has no effect on our infrastructure or way of life.

(Particularly liked the "only 25%' of births. I.e one in every 4 or a quarter. That is a huge amount).

The Government had lots of time to prepare for the schools issue and has opened lots of free schools in areas that already have spare capacity. On top of this 85% or so of students got their first choice school!

The Government never envisioned the problem, let alone put in place plans to provide the enhanced infrastructure.

I think being out of the EU will effect quality of life far more, rising inflation, rising unemployment, lower tax take to spend on resources, less opportunities abroad for our children etc.

I think being out if the EU and back in control of our laws, our trade, our defence, our taxes and our borders will be much better for my children.

PuttingouthefirewithGasolin, is it my post you didnt understand? I cna re write it more clearly. I do type quickly and sometimes dont preview. Which post is it?

But thats anecdote isn't, I might as well say the opposite and have at it, but the data proves my point.

Btw Anna on that point you make above only 14% of EU immigrants are in reciept of tax credits, so if 1.9m of them are working then that works out at about 266,000 people. They are under represented in the unemployment statistics.

The article you quote from is the Daily Mail of which there is no corroberation in any other paper.

It does say this:

"It adds that more than £3.1billion of the annual £27.2billion in-work benefits bill goes to EEA nationals. They represent around 6 per cent of the working-age population, but receive more than 10 per cent of the in-work benefit spend."

Which goes against the ONS/DWP own statistics of how many people are on in work benefits.

It also then says that EU immigration makes up more than half of net migration, when it doesn't its about 44%. So I'm not going to trust their use of data or the veracity of the article.

PuttingouthefirewithGasolin, is it my post you didnt understand?

I thought I understood your post, but was confused by Lurkeds interpretation of it.