In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

you and Brexit HQ above aren't interested

On the contrary, I'd like to know your arguments as you seem so sure of them.

The link regards businesspeople..
They do not say they don't like the EU,they give proposals for change.It is a well written easy to read document.

I find so many contradictory sources quoting statistics cast to prove the author's point of view that in the end I reference my experience in business and engineering. The standardisation and trading arrngments in the marine industry, particularly the marine equipment directive have kept UK countries at the forefront. Outside of the EU we would still have to comply but have no say in the directive of technical communities writhing the harmonised standards referenced in the directive.
EMC, R&TTE would massively impact electronic equipment from phones to computers and laptops how do you suggest we proceed? Give up on our voice on the technical working groups and let our dominance in a multitude of technical areas evaporate because Joe blog vs thinks "Regulation" is a bad idea... try anarchy!

Unyet I have an acquaintance in business who can't wait to vote Leave as he is hamstrung by the EU.
I do not think any of our expertise would be shunned on leaving the EU,the EU is hardly going to cut its nose off to spite it's face.I think they need us more than we need them definitely.

It's really not a question of expertise, but influence. Once were're on the outside of the committees setting the standards and shaping the directives we will still have to meet every requirement but have no hand in shaping them. Technical expertise is very easily lost but very hard to attract back. If we're left only with service industries what happens to our long term prospects. Most people who speak of Red tape and regulation have no specific example to reference... I wonder why?

www.cnbc.com/2016/03/14/brexit-wont-hurt-our-trade-with-uk-global-cfos.html

Good news to read.

My personal experience is in research and higher education. And leaving the EU would be potentially devastating.

The UK is the most successful EU country in terms of winning research funding, by quite a margin. We receive disproportionately more money than any other country. It's a hugely important source of income, and we desperately need it. Not to mention that EU research money tends to go to collaborative and inter-disciplinary projects that are particularly beneficial to business.

And that's just the basic money argument, there are many other reasons in terms of access to international facilities, research and student mobility, etc.

Higher Education is one of Britain's most successful sectors, and it has nothing to gain from leaving the EU. But a whole lot to lose.

Chalalala
Potentially devastating. Also potentially more in funding. Who knows how it will pan out but there's at least 20 billion quid in the government pot for funding institutions like yours and other sectors. You won't be competing with other countries and the nepotism that goes with the Eu for it!
Win win all round vote leave

20 Billion in additional funding sound far fetched. Academic funding drives the sort of research and innovation that builds economies. We shouldn't see the EU institutions as competing for the funding, in reality this shared environment creates opportunities for collaboration. The EU provides a funding and recruiting arena that shouldn't be ignored.

If we leave the EU, we lose billions in funding every year, for sure. You're telling me that "potentially" we'll have more money in the end? and "who knows how it will pan out"? That's nowhere near good enough.

As I said - in terms of research money we get way more out of the EU than we put in. Because yes, we compete with other countries, but by and large we win. The competition is working for us.

And the funding is not the only issue. Mobility, collaborations - these also matter a lot.

There's a reason why more than a hundred university vice-chancellors signed an open letter opposing Brexit.

I'm married to an academic, she completed her PhD in the UK but studied all over the world. She chose to remain in the UK and two of her last three research grants were from EU institutions. I just wish that this side of the EU was more publicised.

i'm for staying.

Thanks to the EU we have really good laws for maternity leave and parental leave. Pregnant women can't be fired for being pregnant or parents for taking parental leave. We also have laws protecting the rights of part time workers so that they can't be treated differently to full-time workers. We also have laws on workplace equality and rights protecting workers if their employers are sold.

Right now any government ignoring our rights can be taken to the European Court and fined.

If we leave as soon as there is a general election the new government could change these laws. What would happen if someone like Thatcher were elected again? Would someone like her protect workers' rights or do whatever they could to help their friends in the City by reducing workers' rights?

We can vote the Tories out

This was in response to a point made about the NHS.
Yes, we can vote them out, but if they've decimated the NHS, it would be exceptionally difficult to rebuild. The destruction of the NHS was not, I believe, in their manifesto.

We have absolutely nothing to thank the Eu for. The economy, jobs and wealth in this country is down to the efforts of the British worker.
If the Eu was that good Greece, Spain, Portugal and many other Eu countrises wouldn't have such high levels of unemployment particularly amongst its youth who have no hope of seeing a better future anytime soon.
Most pro Eu posters are only concerning themselves with minor issues that might or might not impact slightly on them.
In the long term that attitude is comparable with finding a five pound note only to lose a twenty pound note.

is this last point in relation to the Higher Ed discussion, Andy? the industry that generates almost a million jobs and £70+ billion/year?

Andy,
The points that have been raised on the pro side are not minor. When the Scientists, Engineers and academic institutions point out the importance of being in the EU in providing the growth to the country that their respective areas provide it is sensible to listen. Most out campaigners seem to be people looking for something to blame for their issues with the world, regardless that the issues have little to do with the EU and wouldn't be improved by leaving.

Academic funding etc all very nice to have but these are minor issues.

For anyone seriously considering voting remain, please read up on TTIP. This link here is to an article about TTIP from The Independent, which has grave concerns about TTIP despite being a pro-EU newspaper.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

TTIP will lead to the rapid demise of the NHS as public health services will be opened up to US companies.

Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS) is one of the main aims of the agreement. It will allow corporations to sue Govenments so policies will be set to suit big businesses rather than the populace. As the article states unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments.

TTIP will lead to the lifting on restrictions of many toxic substances being used in our food. On its agenda is to converge our food safety laws with those of the USA meaning greater use of pesticides and GM food.

The EU has admitted jobs will move to the US meaning greater unemployment in the EU.

All these points ad more are the reason TTIP talks are being kept so secretive. and why Obama is so keen for us to remain. He wants to screw us.

TTIP has major issues. However this Tory government would go further to erode the working and intututional protections afforded its citizens. The deal that we would strike with the US would be bargained from a position of weakness compared to that if the EU. With America becoming more isolationist the EU will be ever more critical. Fight to change TTIP from where we can, the inside.

Also, remove academic funding and you will destroy an important economic driver, hardly minor. The economy can't prosper on retail and leisure!

Even if the tories did those things which I doubt, at least you can throw them out at the next general election.

But much better to have a second institution such as the EU providing checks and balances. The Lord's are no longer fit for this purpose if they ever were. Also many of the rights afforded ordinary people are only affordable on the basis of being equally applied accross the union. The Tories have already eroded working practices just look at the right to tribunal for new employees not to mention a refusal to tighten upon 0 hours contract.

www.express.co.uk/news/world/653754/Ostersund-cancels-Earth-Hour-festival-over-fears-of-migrant-sex-attacks
There is also the social side of the risk of staying in the EU with no control of our own borders.
This is the 24 th story regarding social disturbance,murder,rape or molestation since the mass migration of late.I do not think it fair of EU leaders to do this to their populations.
Women and girls should be able to be out and about without being fearful.This dimension alone should make every woman vote Leave.