In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

come on, the Daily Mail is fair.

Let's face it, as well as many admirable people, there are quite a few not-so-admirable people on the "remain" side too...

I have no doubt that Daily Mail would spin this story to be the fault of Scotland voters.

Well of course they would! That wouldn't be any surprise. Everyone knows what the Daily Mail is like

The EU referendum really is a question of what sort of society we wish to live in. An example of this is the Working Time Directive. Whilst in my opinion not strong enough it does provide a basic level of protection to workers. We can fight to have this directive strengthend and because it applies accross the board the impacts on competitivness between countries is minimised. Now post brexit strengthening a parallel arrangement would be almost impossible due to competition worries. Furthermore I can see a real possibility that this government would scrap it altogether in the name of supporting bussiness. So begins a race to the bottom, a low wage tax haven with poor social mobility.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/655417/Brexit-EU-referendum-parliament-Strasbourg-Brussels-cost-British-taxpayers
Crazy waste of money,when you think of what that money could be spent on.

The EU's national governments unanimously decided in 1992 to fix permanently the seat of the EU institutions. The official seat and venue for most of the plenary sessions is Strasbourg, Parliamentary Committees and Political Group meetings are held in Brussels and administrative staff are based in Luxembourg. At the time this possibly made more sense than you would think reading the daily mail. Not only does it spread the wealth creation from the support roles but housing all those individuals in one place is almost impossible. Not everyone travels, most support staff don't. How much does our own seat of parliament cost? Divide this into the head count of the populous or for that matter just the parliament and the total cost is not so out of step. Could we improve... probably, but only if we're in.!

www.olswang.com/articles/2016/01/the-brexit-conundrum-what-would-an-out-scenario-mean-for-uk-employment-law/
Staying in harmony with the long held directives would not be impossible.Things long ingrained in business would not be lightly abandoned as businessmen want a workforce that is healthy and happy as it affects profits.
Regarding the ridiculous movement between the two EU bases it is wanton wastefulness,not to mention the carbon footprint.

Maintaining seperate parallel legislation... why leave just to mirror something and then have no say? The truth is parallel legislation will never be passed. Businesses are in the business of making money and they will always squeeze their labourforce when legislation is not in place to protect them. How many people were killed and injured in avoidable accidents before the heath and safety act was introduced (albeit not EU legislation)? For how long were women paid less in the workplace? Why does child labour exist in the world if business is motivated by looking after it's employee's? Before I'm accused of being anti business I ran my own business after leaving the forces.

Britain had already introduced a good deal of helpful legislation long before we joined the EU in 1992.

For example on the subject of women's rights, the Abortion Act 1967 and the Equal Pay Act 1970. In addition, the UK's own Equality Act of 2010 would continue if we leave the EU.

The Domestic Violence Act and the Employment Protection Act were passed independently of the EU, and the Divorce Reform Act was passed before we joined the EU.

RockUnit
Exactly

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-plot-france-attack-advanced-stages-bomb-terrorism-brussels-a6951471.html
This is endless ,we need to get ourselves out of the EU obviously in order to secure our own borders and facilitate our security.

We have control of our own borders and security now. This is an empty conclusion. Outside the EU we become more on efficient and more vulnerable because we will be the isolated member. We need to see the world of today and tomorrow.

Engineer
How can we have control of our borders in the Eu?
Those responsible for the Brussels attacks could quite easily have made there way to the UK due to free movement of Eu citizens where the schengen arrangement is not an issue.
The security services in Belgium have not come out of this with any credit have they?
Who's to say there are not other European passport holders plotting right now in the uk that eu foreign security services have missed?
The former head of MI 6 has said we are on balance safer being out of the Eu and with due respect I think he is more qualified to judge that than you or I.
I cannot see that he would have any inducement to lie?
Not even the risk of one British persons murder at the hands of a foreign terrorist in this country is acceptable.
Afterall that victim might be one of your loved ones.

Presumably this (British) guy knows a thing or two about security too?

The head of Europol has dismissed claims by a former MI6 chief that Britain could be safer from terrorist attacks if it left the EU, saying it was a “serious miscalculation” to withdraw from security cooperation with other member states.

Rob Wainwright, the director of Europol, said it was 10 years since Sir Richard Dearlove was director-general of MI6 and there was now a “far stronger capability to fight crime” through membership of the EU’s law enforcement agency.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/24/europol-chief-rob-wainwright-brexit-mistake-uk-security-richard-dearlove

I've put m two pennetb in. I have carefully listened and read both sides of the argument on many forums and news and current affairs programmes and I am more positive than ever that my vote is to leave.

Wow! So a post brexit UK would stop EU citizens entering the UK? Or would it be selective? Maybe skin colour, you could give the border guards swatch cards! Or maybe religion.... I'm getting the feeling those who want to exit and raise the draw bridge would be Trump supporters!

engineersthumb, I've actually been thinking that the similarities are striking. Pretty sure UKIP would advocate building a wall, if they could.

An excellent quote from the former Minister of State for Security and Counter Terrorism, putting a few facts straight:

“Free movement” actually means the ability of EU citizens to work in Britain, not to enter Britain unchecked. In fact the UK operates full border controls for all entrants into the UK, irrespective of nationality or point of entry. The UK conducts security-related checks on the passports of every single individual, including all EU citizens, entering the UK from continental Europe or elsewhere.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/25/richard-dearlove-leaving-eu-british-security-open-borders

Chalalala
I wondered why we had so many big issue sellers up here in Bradford. Romanian pickpockets,atm scamers and beggars.
.

Andy, I was answering your previous questions about the risks of terrorism in/out of the EU. Are you shifting the goal posts and asking an entirely different question now?

If you are undecided about whether to vote leave then might I suggest you look at the question a different way.
Presuming we were having a referendum now to decide whether we should join the European union based on how it is now and how it might impact in us in the future would you vote to join?
If your answer is no then you should vote to leave.

no offence Andy, but this question doesn't make much sense - to answer it, we would need to imagine that we live in a Britain that never joined the EU in the first place, and we have no way of knowing what the country would be like today in this scenario.

Andy
It's an interesting conjecture. I think that there would be a large popularist move to join. It would be based on very similar arguments to those being made by many supporting exit now, real issues affecting people's lives but really having little to do with the EU at all. It would be the golden bullet to cure discontentment much as brexit has become.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12204515/The-EU-is-a-huge-version-of-Belgium-and-it-cant-deal-with-the-modern-world.html

Interesting.Safer to vote leave.