Should I have said anything?

[ThatCoralKoala]

I took my child to a summer party and was sat talking to her with my little one on my shoulder (no raised voices and no crying or anything). I was telling her to pass me her sweet before she ran off dancing or to eat it first because they’d asked the children not to eat sweets while dancing. A volunteer (a woman in her 60s) came up behind me and grabbed my daughter’s arm and said “come dance with me”. I explained I had the situation under control and she just wanted to play while eating. She said “give the sweet to mummy” but when I again explained I have it under control myself she took her to the dance floor and began waving her arms around. My daughter is 2 for reference. In the end I had to go over and take my daughter away and ignore the woman until she left. The party overall was lovey but I couldn’t stop thinking about it and how upset I was that she’d grabbed my daughter without her or my consent. I don’t doubt that she meant well but it didn’t make it right and I don’t want other parents feeling uncomfortable too. I sent the venue a message and asked could they speak to the volunteer and let her know that touching children without parent consent is too far. They’ve replied to say she is mortified, won’t volunteer again and because she’s a key part of organising that they won’t do events again. I feel awful now that the children’s events won’t be run again and my intention was only to ensure the volunteer didn’t overstep boundaries in future unintentionally

The language used may have played in to the response of the venue and volunteer. Saying someone touched someone without consent can sound very sinister as it is usually the language used around sexual abuse.
I do think the volunteer should have listened to you but you also should have dealt with it there and then if your DD was uncomfortable rather than leaving her to dance with the volunteer and complaining later. I don't think it's really worthy of a complaint, some parents would have appreciated the help, some children would have felt more confident and had more fun after the volunteer got them involved.

I can't quite believe this is true. I just don't buy the response to the email was "she's so embarrassed she's quit and we won't run anything ever again".
If true, it's very unprofessional.

If it is true, then I agree with everyone else who has said (far more articulately than I) that the woman was trying to help and you either needed to gently say "get, thanks for the help but [my child] doesn't want to hold hands right now" or let it go.

Teach your child not just about consent but about intention. Sometimes people will do things that you don't like. The child needs the strength and confidence to speak up and say "no" and "stop" but they also need the wisdom to understand the person's intention so that they don't live in fear of, well, other people. This was the perfect opportunity to say to your daughter "You can say no if you don't want to dance but also, it's okay if you'd like to get to know this lady and go and join her." Presumably, this was a public event and you could see your child. What was the worst that could happen?

The language used may have played in to the response of the venue and volunteer. Saying someone touched someone without consent can sound very sinister as it is usually the language used around sexual abuse.

Absolutely. With only that email to go on, if I was the volunteer I'd be feeling that I'd been accused of something terrible.

Just for a moment, imagine that you've given your time and care for years, to give young children a happy time, and suddenly an email from a parent complains about you 'touching' a child. It will have come out of nowhere and hit her like a rock. And she'll be wondering what the person who passed on that message is thinking about her. Come on now, @ThatCoralKoala surely you can understand that that would be devastating.

I can't quite believe this is true. I just don't buy the response to the email was "she's so embarrassed she's quit and we won't run anything ever again".
If true, it's very unprofessional

If true, she doesn't have to be professional, in the sense of sticking with the role. This isn't her job. She's not paid, she's not on a contract. She doesn't have to give up her time and energy for nothing, only to find herself accused of 'touching' a child.

I have two volunteer gigs. I'm about to walk away from one of them, because there are people there who make it unpleasant (in a much less devastating way). I don't have to give up my time and commit to something that's not positive for me. I spent 40 years committed to a job and being professional. I don't have to commit to anything any more, if it doesn't work for me.

But now, because you chose to be passive in the moment, the entire event is cancelled!

Like - you were either so concerned and worried about your daughter being uncomfortable, and your consent being overrode that, as a mother, you would have jumped in straight away.

Or...you got yourself all het up thinking about it for ages afterwards, decided to be a bit mean-spirited, and wanted to get a woman who volunteers her time and effort into trouble because you were in a snit.

It's a real shame. I'm not sure that the parents of all the children who'll be missing out now will appreciate your concern for their 'consent' going forward. They likely would have much preferred to have their children entertained by people who volunteer for such things.

Why should she be professional? She's not being paid for this, she's a volunteer. Or was, until OP!

Implying that she is touching children without consent is incredibly sinister.

excellently put and exactly correct. We can all mull things over. But the fault lies in not reacting at the time, resulting in the loss of a community event.

the thing is I don’t doubt she meant well and some parents wouldn’t bother. I however declined her help multiple times and my daughter was visibly uncomfortable with her yet she continued and grabbed her arms. There was dedicated entertainers and the volunteer was just serving food. My children were not upset or distressed and neither was I. I don’t know why she thought I needed help but when I said no she should’ve listened and when she took my daughter by her arm and could see she was uncomfortable and not dancing like she was independently moments later she shouldn’t have grabbed her arms and started waving them in an effort to make her dance.

Again I didn’t say anything at the time because I was shocked and genuinely trying to not kick off and upset my daughter. I emailed because it was playing on my mind. What if my daughter had had a hidden disability? My nephew has autism and if someone had grabbed him as she did and taken him from his mum, he’d have been distraught.

OK, so OP either shouldn't have said anything at all, or she should have gone over, removed her daughter from the woman and potentially sparked an embarrassing scene in the venue, in the moment... but it was totally out of order for her to email the organisers afterwards setting out her concerns so that they could have a word with the volunteer in private?

Also, the volunteer's age is completely irrelevant, but also part of the problem is that we are "now" in a time when people make a fuss about things they didn't previously make a fuss about, and apparently previously adults were fine with other adults coming and taking their kids away despite being asked not to. When were these halcyon days? I think my late mum and her friends would be surprised to hear some of these takes!

There are lots of reasons why what this volunteer did was misjudged, OP, I honestly don't understand the pile on.

Just to clarify I haven’t in anyway insinuated that she sexually touched my daughter. As said here and in the message I sent the venue I was very explicit in saying “she grabbed her arm”.

Spot on.
65 here and I’d be mortified if you had reacted to my kindness like that.

Presumably if he'd have been distraught he would have either refused to go with her or kicked up a fuss resulting in her bringing him back to his parent. You make it sound like she was kidnapping your DD, she was overstepping but meaning well.

I’d file this under the ‘annoying things that didn’t actually hurt anyone’ in my mind.
People make mistakes all the time, misjudge situations with the best intentions, whatever… me included because I’m no more perfect than the next person.
She was doing a nice thing volunteering and was trying to do a nice thing for you and your daughter with the dancing. I’d let it slide rather than point it out and make her feel like shit.
When people are giving their time for nothing I think you have to give them a bit of grace.
Equally I think you’ve tried to do the right thing and missed the mark a little but again - best intentions.
I’s probably contact the organisers again and try and smooth it over. It’s seems like an over reaction on both sides and it’s a shame for the kids to lose out.

So you took your daughter’s hand and got her dancing at an activity where there was dancing? I can’t really see what the problem was here?

She grabbed my daughter’s arm after I said no and without asking her if she wanted to go with her. She had been dancing happily prior but with the woman she did not and the woman didn’t see she was uncomfortable and instead grabbed her arms and started waving them. She was well intentioned but it doesn’t take from the fact that I said no and she ignored me and my daughter was uncomfortable.

as I keep stating, I don’t doubt the woman was well intentioned and I did not anticipate that by asking someone to have a quiet word and let her know that I felt her actions were inappropriate after I’d said no, would result in her leaving and the stopping of events. Despite her being well intentioned she still ignored me when I told her I didn’t need help, took her to dance with the sweet in her mouth (knowing it was what I was trying to avoid) and grabbed her arms without even asking if she wanted to go.

Just because you are well intentioned doesn’t make your actions right. Yes I know volunteers want to get involved and interact with the children and I have no issue with this but I do take issue with ignoring a parents wishes when repeatedly told I didn’t need help and grabbing her arms. I’ve never been to an event where instead of a hand being offered the child’s arm is grabbed and they are pulled to dance.

Genuinely the email was me thanking them, saying the party was the lovely and staff were great. I then explained what had happened (just as it happened) and said I didn’t think it was appropriate to grab her arm but especially after I’d said I was fine and didn’t need her help. I naively thought they would relay this to the volunteer in a kind way ans they have obviously worked closely with her and did not expect the outcome/ reply I received. I’ve explained why I didn’t call it out at the time but also if I had I do not know how this person would have reacted to it. The last thing I would’ve wanted is her becoming verbally abusive or running off crying. I wouldve assumed a colleague who knows her (I.e who I emailed) would’ve relayed the feedback in a sensitive way

Sounds like you think your actions were the right thing to do anyway regardless of what anyone here says.

Sounds like you think your actions were the right thing to do anyway regardless of what anyone here says.

Wow, what an overreaction and now you have ruined it for so many other people as well

I think you need to communicate more clearly about things you feel so strongly about.

I'm fine isn't a clear statement that someone's offer of help is unwanted. It's a passive, wishy washy response that often means "I'm not fine but I don't want to be any trouble".

The lady was trying to help, she thought you were struggling and stepped in.

Was it a case of grabbed her arm or took her by the arm? The connotations of grabbing makes it seem more unpleasant and this may be why the volunteer has been upset
Only you will know how your child was handled by this lady.

Ive volunteered with children and young people and ALWAYS have a hands off approach. So I do think the lady was wrong to place her hand on your child, although I am sure it was done with the best of intentions, no maliciousness was meant. She should have listened to you as the parent.

You were in the wrong to email the venue later on. There was no need for you to do that.

Regardless it was a minor issue and you shouldn’t have complained. Now you’ve ruined it for everyone.

I'm quite torn on this as I agree that this woman was trying to help and didn't mean harm but I have a DC who would react very badly to a stranger doing this to them.

In hindsight it would have been better for you not to send the email but you weren't to know that it was going to be handled so badly.

This is the impression I get with this thread. Did I overreact 90% yes, oh I’ll ignore that.

Personally I think if you are local to this volunteer you should go and see her face to face, stop hiding behind emails and being a dick.

Go and see the event people and explain yourself, maybe words like “I apologise I overreacted and the outcome isn’t what I intended” these were my reasons.

Or you can just sit online having your actions justified by 10% of random stranger and live with the fact you’ve essentially trashed an event that other people enjoy because you are over sensitive and sent email in anger, because you couldn't use your adult voice and speak up at the time.

For me it’s all a bit keyboard warrior behaviour, a bit of face it face grown up action is needed to fix this., assuming you feel suitably guilty and want to find this or are we just filling you need for comments and likes?