What to do - driving

[drivingmetomywitsend]

My dad is 81, and lives with my mum who is the same age. They manage at home without any outside support, apart from me. Dad has been having episodes of dizziness/collapse for some time now, which have resulted in several hospital admissions while they try to get to the cause of it. He’s currently waiting for an appointment with the heart failure consultant. He also has worsening memory problems.

His last episode was on Monday night, and on Tuesday the doctor we saw said in no uncertain terms that he wasn’t to drive unless they told him he could. Mum can drive but hasn’t done for some time, and has lost her confidence. We’ve discussed her having a refresher lesson or two but she wasn’t enthusiastic.

Today dad had an appointment with his GP, which is only about 1/4 mile away, at the top of the road, but he insisted on driving as it wasn’t far….

I’ve pointed out that he is driving illegally and uninsured but they both brushed it off (“But it wasn’t far!”)

I suggested that mum tries a short trip tomorrow but I suspect that she won’t, and may even just tell me she has to shut me up. I am happy to take them to hospital appointments, as parking is also a nightmare there, but I am reluctant to become their default to drive up the road or to the local supermarket - they can easily afford taxis btw. I live 20 minutes drive away, and once I’m over there tend to get sucked into helping them with other stuff, so it’d be a chunk of my day.

What do I do? The doctor said to inform the DVLA, I thought that was unnecessary since he wouldn’t be driving, but now I wish I had at the time. If I tell them now would it look like the doctor had told them? I’m not convinced it would stop him driving anyway, and I really don’t want him to cause an accident.

Yoi could set up a regular time for a taxi each week for the supermarket, shopping etc. It sounds as if your Mum is still not very confident about driving and your Dad cannot be trusted not to. I think it would be a good idea to sell both cars.

I'm so glad to see the way this thread has gone. Often on these elderly driver threads there are howls of age discrimination at the very suggestion somebody should stop driving.

It's hard knowing and realising your lifetime of independent is waning away, that you can't do the things do easily as you used to, knowing something is happening to your body but have no control over. The one thing I wanted to do for my DM was to move closer to help her with any trips, I could drive her, go to medical appointments, take her out so it gets her out of the house. It took her a good year to realise she hadn't driven her car at all, as she knew she wanted safe but didn't want to give it up just in case. As it was I'd visit driving 300 miles there and same back twice a year and she said my trips would last her weeks in memories. I drove down when she kept falling near her end. I find your seemingly lack of understanding (and yr selfish brother) of now taking the reins a lot more to help yr parents shockingly insensitive. Just give them time to come round to the idea of losing a lot of their independence put yrself in their shoes.

My grandfather was like your dad OP. I remember being in the car with him when he hit a kerb, went through a red light and nearly hit a cyclist, all in one ten minute journey. I was only about 14. He could really have killed someone. His adult children (one was a GP) basically eventually confiscated the car and made an arrangement with a local taxi company, trying to frame that as a ‘gift.’ It wasn’t easy. At least the saving grace is that they can afford taxis.

This is your notice, a huge hint from the Universe actually, that you need to sit your parents down and have the conversation about that consent.

You also need to discuss POA.

The problem with 'give them time' is that they are behind the wheel against very clear doctor's orders, and putting the genera public in danger, while they 'come around'.

I had the same problem. How would you feel if they put a child or a young mother/father in wheelchair for life or worse. You have to make the tough decisions like I did. If they won’t listen to sense then speak to the police. If the Dr has told him not to drive then he’s driving without insurance and the car can be taken and crushed.

We had this problem. My brother reported my DF to dvla and I emailed the Dr. We are not entirely sure which one worked but dvla sent a form to my DF asking for a medical report from his Dr. If he didn’t reply he lost his licence immediately and in our case, he lost his licence through the medical report. It can be given back by another medical report so if your DF is ok after tests/medication he could get his licence back. We found our DF did respect the dvla form. Although he does complain about it!

My friend, who wasn’t born in the UK, took away her father’s gun when he started to develop dementia. The father was very cross with her but she knew she had to do it. They didn’t speak for a couple of months.
OP, your father might as well go out with a loaded gun if his health conditions means he cannot drive properly.You must do everything in your power to stop him even if it means they don’t speak to you for a couple of months.
I think you should work on stopping both your parents. I don’t know why you would encourage an elderly woman, who is not a confident driver, to drive.

You can ‘give them time’ to come round whilst doing the driving for them and keep gently reminding them of the dangers of continuing to drive. I would give my hind teeth to live my last 7 years again and help out my dads wife with his care with Parkinson’s, and my mum who had no one to help bar a decrepit friend who tried her damndest to help, as my dear sister, who had moved down there 11 years ago to keep an eye on our parents, died of cancer 4 years later. I guess some people just aren’t as close I we were as a small family unit, despite all our problems.

Oh op, I know it’s hard but please do act on this. Their anger is so much more preferable than an accident where he hurts or kills someone, or himself. When this happened with my mum (she had dementia, would get lost, forget how to drive while actually driving, while being adamant she was fine.!) we took the keys and then sold her car. Sorry, not sorry (not even a little): she was a liability and it was unpleasant (she was raging!) but necessary.

Oh, stop being so sanctimonious @schtompy , it's really unhelpful. I get that it's hard to lose your independence - I really do. But to suggest that anyone who doesn't just do everything for their parents isn't close to them, is nonsense. (In my case, for example, I live a couple of hours away and work six days a week, while my sister lives five hours away and also works full time. I love my parents dearly, but how is 'popping over to do the driving' going to be possible in that scenario? I'm not going to move near them, taking my kids out of school and giving up my job, and they don't want to move near me, because they still have friends and local connections.)

There are many, many reasons why children of elderly parents can't provide that level of practical help. And yes, some people are less close to their parents, sometimes for damn good reason.

Absolutely. It’s not reasonable to suggest that parents should expect their children to just drive them around everywhere. Most people don’t have the time or inclination to do this. Especially when they’ve brought up their own kids and are finally free of those responsibilities. It’s always possible to organise an online food delivery for them every week.

I anonymously reported a relative to the dvla. He was advised by the hospital not to drive but continued to do so. Eventually he got a letter from the dvla asking for medical details etc. That was weeks ago and very recently got a letter advising his licence was due for renewal. So whether the dvla have decided he is fit to drive and the renewal licence was automatically generated I don’t know. He is 90, some days can barely walk. Both him and his wife get attendance allowance and are fairly well off but won’t use taxis.

What a bitchy comment! How bout understanding most people are dealing with more than one thing in their lives

Cut OP some slack.

Can I just remind everyone that this is on OPs DF, not on OP. OP is doing her very best to convince her DF not to drive and has come here for help. She doesn’t warrant a lecture and if some of the posts had come from men they’d be called Mansplaining.

DF still has capacity, he has heard what the GP said and decided to ignore it. If he causes an accident it will be 100% his fault. (Not telling the DVLA also opens him to a £1000 fine and invalidates his insurance, but I\m sure OP knows that).

For those of us who’ve been in this situation OP has already worked wonders - got DM back behind the wheel, contacted the DVLA, working towards selling DFs car.

OP, thanks for making the roads a bit safer for the rest of us 💐

I could have written the original post. What made it hardest was the collusion between my parents. Mum would ring me about the latest driving problem (Dad getting stuck in car park etc) but would deny it when we had a proper conversation. We all had direct evidence of his decline in driving ability. Once she stopped driving she expected to be chauffeured around (and still does, by her DCs, 3 years after Dad's death). I didn't realise until late on to what extent Dad felt the pressure on him to drive. He didn't want to, couldn't admit it, saw no way out, distrusted taxis. In the end we moved them to a retirement flat where they could walk everywhere ( he hated it) and we sold the car, telling him we were going to find a simpler one for him. Outright lies but no other option. Do NOT become their taxi. Do NOT let your own health/life/finances become the buffer zone between them and their refusal to accept reality. Help them, but you aren't their only port of call. For everything else, arrange community transport, see what can be done with home visits, find a good cab firm. Don't expect them to like it. Expect to be unpopular! Take it steady and look after yourself.

@drivingmetomywitsend you're doing brilliantly and it sounds like things have progressed well.

I think in your shoes I'd work on slowly encouraging your DDad to sell his car, and then the money from the sale could go straight into a taxi kitty (I know they have the money but it sounds like they don't like to spend it, and tbf it can take a while to get your head 'round paying what seems like such a lot of money for one little ride), 'just to make things easier on those days where you'd like to relax and not have to think about driving.'

You're not reading or understanding what I have written.

Oh I think people are understanding it and the aspersions it casts on people who don't take over all the driving or other things for elderly parents. What @asknotwhat said is spot on.

How do you do the driving for them if you have a full time job and primary-aged kids?!
And don’t live nearby.

It sounds like you’ve been through a lot and are grieving but this isn’t practical advice for many people.

@Beautifulcreatures2 You will be responsible (morally, if not legally) if she kills or injures someone because you are 'too scared' to take the keys off her.

You need to take action - remove the keys from the house- take the car for some repairs permanently if you feel you can’t report but you really need to as someone will be killed and it won’t just be your mum!

So many people (not just the elderly) who shouldn’t be driving. Good to hear you want to do something about it and hopefully the thought of your father potentially killing someone will motivate you to call his GP, DVLA and the police. The DVLA will arrange a retest and whilst the GP and police might not do that much, you will have their support and he will feel the pressure.

I like the idea from PP around disengaging the battery, would that work?

glad you've reported to DVLA. I reported an elderly neighbour and said she was dangerous on the roads, which she was

DVLA did follow up and took her licence. Speaking to her son who she lived we, he said he didn’t know who reported her but was glad that they did as she refused to listen to anyone in the family