What to do - driving

[drivingmetomywitsend]

My dad is 81, and lives with my mum who is the same age. They manage at home without any outside support, apart from me. Dad has been having episodes of dizziness/collapse for some time now, which have resulted in several hospital admissions while they try to get to the cause of it. He’s currently waiting for an appointment with the heart failure consultant. He also has worsening memory problems.

His last episode was on Monday night, and on Tuesday the doctor we saw said in no uncertain terms that he wasn’t to drive unless they told him he could. Mum can drive but hasn’t done for some time, and has lost her confidence. We’ve discussed her having a refresher lesson or two but she wasn’t enthusiastic.

Today dad had an appointment with his GP, which is only about 1/4 mile away, at the top of the road, but he insisted on driving as it wasn’t far….

I’ve pointed out that he is driving illegally and uninsured but they both brushed it off (“But it wasn’t far!”)

I suggested that mum tries a short trip tomorrow but I suspect that she won’t, and may even just tell me she has to shut me up. I am happy to take them to hospital appointments, as parking is also a nightmare there, but I am reluctant to become their default to drive up the road or to the local supermarket - they can easily afford taxis btw. I live 20 minutes drive away, and once I’m over there tend to get sucked into helping them with other stuff, so it’d be a chunk of my day.

What do I do? The doctor said to inform the DVLA, I thought that was unnecessary since he wouldn’t be driving, but now I wish I had at the time. If I tell them now would it look like the doctor had told them? I’m not convinced it would stop him driving anyway, and I really don’t want him to cause an accident.

My Dad was horribly reluctant to stop driving, but I took his keys off him after he had a minor bump in a car park and wouldn't admit to being at fault. He was furious with me for weeks afterwards but it was completely the right thing to do. His eyesight was simply too poor, and he did accept it eventually.

DH removed both sets of FIL's car keys, and later the car itself, when FIL was advised he no longer had the reaction times or physical fitness required for driving. He didn't appreciate the loss of independence, but as he was still mentally capable he could see the dangers, though I suspect that left to himself he might have decided he was still okay to drive short familiar routes.
It's very difficult when you're dealing with a more stubborn character. With other issues I would frame unwanted changes as something that needed to be done 'for now', or 'until you get back on your feet'.

If one of these elderly people killed someone and were had up in court I assume they could be imprisoned for manslaughter?

We took a couple of spark plugs out of my mil’s car when she wouldn’t accept she needed to stop driving. My husband is a mechanic and he kept saying “l’ll fix it next week”…

You inform the DVLA and let them use taxis. That’s what their money is for. Don’t get sucked in.
My DM and another woman were killed by a pensioner ‘drifting’ into oncoming traffic. He survived, just, but couldn’t remember a thing about it.

Not necessarily. The man who killed my mum and the other poor lady got a suspended sentence.

Generally if they give up their licence they rarely get a custodial sentence.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I got in touch with the dvla about my mum without hesitation. We have a duty to keep people safe. My mum was furious with me of course but calmed down eventually.

Yes, that’s right.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/elderly-driver-jailed-for-18-months-for-killing-28-year-old-motorcyclist-in-horror-crash-3786306
Although many of them seem to get away with a suspended prison sentence as long as they give up their licence and express remorse.

Don’t forget too that the insurance is invalid if they drive when a doctor has advised them not to, so the insurance wouldn’t pay out for costs of any crash, treatment of victims etc.

Yes you do know what to do. Remove her keys!

I’m so sorry to hear that Demons.

The doctor won’t do anything. Only the DVLA can help.

How do I report an unsafe driver to the DVLA UK?

If they refuse to stop driving, and you feel that they are a danger to themselves and others you can report your concerns to the DVLA by completing the form at Report Concerns about a driver to the DVLA.

That isn’t true, insurers will cover third party claims.

I can’t see how I can do that anonymously. If my mother found out I had done that she would be incandescent.

@DemonsandMosquitoes im so sorry for your loss.

@Beautifulcreatures2 you do know what to do, you just don’t want to.

@drivingmetomywitsend maybe try a different tack- ‘you know dad, since the dr said you can’t drive that means your insurance is invalid, so driving is breaking the law- you’re a criminal’. My FIL’s pride wouldn’t let him be a criminal.

Failing that, take the keys, or disconnect something electrical under the bonnet.

I'd rather my parent was furious with me than let them potentially endanger others every time they drive off merrily down the road. What's she going to do, tell you off and make you cry? She could kill someone.

This if you can’t get the keys. You can brief any mechanics and in the “meantime” set up a taxi account

You have to be cruel to be kind here.

Inform the DVLA, tell both of your parents that you have done so and let them know that they can and will be flagged by the police at any given time and he will have broken the law.

His insurance would not be valid if he had an accident as the Doctors have clearly told him he’s not fit to drive.

Tell him in black and white terms how selfish he is to continue to drive after being told not to for serious medical reasons and he is at great risk of injuring or killing innocent people.

Take the car keys if you have to and if they moan about how they’ll get around remind them that they can afford taxis.

Innocent people’s lives are at stake here.

Report to DVLA but don't rely on them. We did this with FIL when he was diagnosed with dementia and waited literally months for them to do anything (they never actually did, because he surrendered his licence himself in the end). Anyway, this is a different situation - it's not that your DF been told he has a condition that 'may' mean he can't drive, and has to be assessed - he's been told categorically by a GP that he mustn't drive. I would try telling your parents firmly that you're taking the car and keeping it at your house 'while he's waiting for results', and if they totally refuse then I'd report to the police.

Our system is hopeless and puts too much pressure on the relatives to do the right thing. A diagnosis like this from the doctor should automatically be sent to the DVLA rather than poor old OP having to do it. Surely there is some duty of care towards the other people on the roads that rests higher than with an individual.

OP I would inform the DVLA but don’t tell your DF that you’re doing it. Hopefully when the official letter comes, he will think it happened through the doctor. If not then fess up but say you were only doing what the doctor told you to do.

Report them both to the DVLA (your mother behind the wheel sounds just as bad tbh) and if questioned, smile sweetly, deny all knowledge and say it must have been the doctor. Hide the keys asap, set up a taxi account with a saved phone number and tell them both.....it's no longer up for discussion. I'm afraid the time has come for you to parent your parents and if you need a local uniformed pcso to have a chat then go for it. They must not be allowed to be dangerous on the road.

It is time to be firm with your parents, I'm afraid.

My Mum learned in her late fifties and was always a pretty rubbish driver tbh. She couldn't read the road very well, her reaction times were poor and she had a tendency to panic when things went wrong. She was completely capable in all other areas of her life into her very late eighties. One day (I think in her late seventies) she caused a double decker bus to crash. The only serious injury was one little boy with a broken arm, but apparently the entire bus put in whiplash claims.

Mum handed her licence to the police and that was the end of her driving. She wasn't prosecuted.

So that wasn't the most terrible thing to have on her conscience, but it isn't great either. OP, do you want something like this for your parents?

Can you get cards etc for local taxi firms and ask them for a typical cost? Though he can afford taxis I think it’s not really that generations thinking to get a taxi to the doctors for example and it takes a bit of getting used to. The other thing is cost - how much does the car cost for a few journeys vs a taxi every now and again?

Also selling a second hard car yields quite a lot of money these days!