How to help our children/loved ones in the future when we’re old and hopefully lovely and manageable

[I8toys]

What advice or actions would you put in place (now that you have the knowledge of dealing with all aspects of elderly care) to assist your loved ones if you lose all rationality or capacity in the future

I’ll start

• Wills
• POA for health and finance
• Funeral plans and wishes
• Decluttering/ downsizing
• Spreadsheet of accounts- savings etc. this helped us so much when Fil lost capacity but we still found all sorts of accounts/ bonds

Mine would be:

Make adaptations before there's a crisis
Check what care facilities are available locally
Live somewhere with reasonable public transport and close to a hospital

As well as the admin and decluttering

I understand why people feel it unfair that those paying privately are subsidising the LA authority funded residents in care homes, but I think the idea of deliberately running assets down is not that wise. What happens if you need a lot of help, but aren't at the stage of needing a care home? People seem to think the LA will just swoop in and save you. It doesn't work like that. If you aren't assessed as needing care, it won't be provided. You will be at home reliant on relatives and perhaps putting a great deal of stress on them.
exactly this. Being privately funded gives you much more choice and control. Having funds means you can get in a cleaner/gardener/hot food delivery to keep you independent for longer. I’m not sure why people think buying this care is a waste of money, or how the government has a bottomless pit from which to pull cash for social care. As the percentage of the population past retirement age increases the strain will become greater and- rightly or wrongly- those with funds will be better placed.

Don't be a cow.
ha ha, of course! Just because a cow gets old doesn’t mean she’s entitled to peoples’ time. Linked to that- have reasonable expectations of visits etc. If you live hours away from DC and only see them twice a year now that’s unlikely to change. And don’t have ‘accidents’ to guilt them into attending.

Folks have covered most things.

The stuff re passwords etc is one I'll discuss with DH particularly for our photos as I'd hate to lose access should anything happen to him.

Wills and POA sorted for both of us.

House OK for now, already on a single level, walk in shower etc. Lack of public transport to the GP (closest bus gets you maybe 500-700m away) means we'd have to consider moving if one of us could no longer drive or we lost mobility etc. We'd do that as soon as any issue arose and not dither. Having used a removal firm to do all the packing and moving when we moved in 2021 we know that moving doesn't have to be hard. We did a pretty major declutter with that move.

I'd never expect children or relatives to care for us. We've no DC so if any savings get eaten up in care costs or whatever so be it.

Fitness wise both of us are pretty active and intend to stay that way.

I'm hoping both myself and DH have plenty more years of living to do before needing to worry about all these things.

Give regular gifts from your income to your loved ones (adult kids).

As long as it doesn't affect your lifestyle these are tax free even if you die within seven years.
For example give £50 per week for a cleaner or their gym membership.

They get good value from the gift as it's tax free. Much harder to earn £50.

By getting rid of all your money you will also rid yourself of all choice. If you want to stay in your own house, you won’t be able to because you won’t be able to afford a cleaner and a gardener. If you want to go into a care home, you will have to wait until social services think you need to, which won’t be until they have triec leaving you in one room of your house with 4 brief visits a day. And if you leave it too late to get rid of your money, SS will assess you as if you still had it in your possession.

The system is iniquitous, but this is not the way to beat it.

I’m not sure why people think buying this care is a waste of money, or how the government has a bottomless pit from which to pull cash for social care. As the percentage of the population past retirement age increases the strain will become greater and- rightly or wrongly- those with funds will be better placed. There’ve been two suggestions to solve this 1) a levy on wills, decried by the opposing party as a “death tax” 2) a levy on all retired people, decried by the opposing party as a “dementia tax”. Both would have been fairer than the current system, where a minority of the age group have to bear all the costs of their illness. (We don’t tell people that they need to save in case they get cancer. Dementia is an illness, not a natural part of ageing).

That’s the trouble- money needs to be raised but no one wants to pay it, much like the short-lived NI raise last year/ year before. It’s not just dementia that necessitates care, there are many illnesses and conditions, and good old-fashioned frailty. We need to be brutally honest about the costs because they need covering one way or another.

Yes, there are a lot of conditions. However, dementia is the one that can require years and years of residential care, and cost hundreds of thousands, Others tend to be either shorter or end up with the daily nursing decisions that means they become eligible for continuing health funding, at which point all living costs are covered too.

Costs need to be covered, and the fairest way is to do as we do with most other unmanageable costs - spread it out amongst the population, either by tax or insurance. We most of us have house insurance accepting that if we're lucky will pay in far more than we get out, most of us support the NHS or a mass insurance scheme so we don't have to cover the costs of cancer or a broken leg by ourselves.We need to sort out some way of doing the same for social care. And not the "£85k cap" on care costs, leaving a huge living costs to cover. It's complicated by it being the heirs that benefit, but how fair is it that your children should receive nothing because you needed care through no fault of your or your heirs, while your next door neighbours' children inherit hundreds of thousands? So maybe it's IHT that needs to pay?

@MereDintofPandiculation my own personal view is that at 40 and onwards we should all have a 2% tax levy ( ringfenced) that goes to 'care support'- this can be home carers or residential depending on needs - ditch the caps etc- yep sone will never need it but plenty will- as you say think of it like home insurance- it will help protect those not well off from being shoved in grimmer places and the well off may actually save a fair old whack too -we have to get practical on this- I would also legislate on costs care homes can charge and acceptable profits- so you don't end up with a US type scenario where places just charge ludicrous amounts because they know insurance is paying - if the private homes don't like it- buy them out and turn some back to state control -

my own personal view is that at 40 and onwards we should all have a 2% tax levy ( ringfenced) that goes to 'care support'

the cancelled NI rise for social care was less than 2% and there was uproar.

@SockFluffInTheBath I think the gvt have to be brave and ignore 'uproar' about certain things- however this comes with also communicating how it will work and showing advantages-

Let's be honest places like the Mail and express will create uproar about anything that doesn't involve making older people better off in that instant because that's their readership -we ended up with Brexit mainly because they convinced older people that we too could all be Norway and that it would stop immigration and wouldn't affect investment in UK. look how that turned out -

Personally I believe we have to ignore media with vested interests to get a better mix for everyone- however it requires a very good comms team to get the message across and why it's needed

Make regular gifts outside of excess income and it is not counted for inheritance tax purposes.

Eg. you have a pension giving you £2.5k pcm. After bills and modest expenses, evenings out etc you are routinely left with £400. Don't save it - each month give £400 to your kid(s). But it can't be one off. Has to be regular payment

Declutter house - my parents stayed in the family home until last year and the move was a nightmare
Organise POA and update wills
Accept you need paid help rather than guilting your DC into doing it. The time you spend together becomes chores rather than quality time
Try to stay interested in what others are doing and not spend the whole time talking about my various ailments. Hard I know as you get older there are loads of issues.
Keep details of all accounts, passwords, etc
Stop driving if there is doubt in my ability. I’d trust my DCs judgement.

That’s bad advice. Money equals choice and lack of money means being stuck in somewhere you have no choice about without funds to make it any better.

I think you have to be careful with this though, my MIL got herself 'informal carers' i.e. she had neighbours running around after her when she really needed proper formally-arranged (paid) care and not rely on her neighbours to come running at the drop of a hat.

I agree there is a fine balance. Mum has lovely neighbours and didn’t downsize after dad died because of them. They were more than happy to do the odd little task for her, as she had done in her turn when younger. However, this grew and it wasn’t until one of them let me know that they had to help mum prepare her tea every night for a couple of weeks that it became clear to me how much she was relying on them inappropriately.

so if you have an elderly relative extolling the virtues of helpful friends and neighbours, do check that they not actually taking the proverbial and that the friends and neighbours are not getting fed up. If they decide they’ve had enough and stop as they are entitled to do at any point then it’s a scramble to fill the gap. My opinion is that it’s actually easier getting used to having professional care early so that when your needs increase you are well placed to ramp up the care. Rather than get used to the concept of “strangers in the house” when you are less able to cope with the change.

So commit a crime basically? What if you want to use your hard earned cash to be in a home which is more like a hotel? Admittedly doesn’t matter if you’ve no idea what day it is but there are some older people in residential care who want a certain standard of living and are prepared to pay.

I would definitely not live with them as we all need our own space (my DM lives with us and it works ok but I wouldn't want to replicate that with DDs). Definitely have everything legal in place and enough money to pay for care and funeral.

Given that “surprises” in three separate wills have caused heartache and/or rows in my family, I’d suggest the following:

1. Be fair.

Let’s say that Mr and Mrs Jones buy a house and bring up their children there. When Mr Jones dies, Mrs Jones marries Mr Brown. Mrs Jones dies next, followed by Mr Brown. The whole estate goes to Mr Brown’s nieces and nephews. Is this fair? No, probably not.

In another case, does sibling A deserve to inherit more than sibling B, given the deceased had a pretty good relationship with both? No, probably not, and your unequal will could damage the relationship between them.

2. Let your family know your wishes.

If you want to leave adult child A more than adult child B because A is disadvantaged in life and needs it more, for goodness sake, tell them whilst you’re still alive. Don’t leave B wondering if it was due to teenage rows, or their choice of spouse or perhaps A badmouthing them out of jealousy …

If an item of furniture was handmade by your grandfather and you’d like it to be passed down as a family heirloom, tell your family! Don’t leave them to discover this after you’ve died, years after they helped you downsize so you could move into a dementia care home.

If you want to disinherit one relative as an unexpected “fuck you” from beyond the grave, please know this is a spiteful and cowardly thing to do. If you’d been NC for years for good reason (or through no fault of your own), then that’s different. In that case they ought not to be shocked. But do think about how you’d like to be remembered by everyone, not just those you fell out with.

I agree with so much of the above.

I would add one thing more if possible. Don’t live hours away from the people that you hope will want to be in your life.

Ive just divorced and have left the area I’ve been in for 30 years. Im currently renting, but intend to buy closer to my Dc. It’s a suitable point for me. Wherever I go I need to make new friends and social connections, so it may as well be closer to them.

Im fit enough to help with pet and babysitting. As I age, I don’t want every visit from them to be a 2hour car journey.

Im very lucky that I have moved so many times in life, (ex military spouse) that moving in the future if they move doesn’t worry me. Plus I have enough money that I can afford help to be independent for as long as possible.

i have experience of elderly relatives who won’t leave their homes. I understand why that can be difficult- but I want to develop a mindset now that makes it always an option.

I'm going to add some don'ts to the mix.

Don't do Equity Release or Lifetime Mortgage it just complicates the assets picture and more than likely leaves you a bit out of pocket for any residential care you might need.

Don't pay for a funeral plan but do set out plans for what sort of funeral you would like and share them with your family. If you are solvent the cost of a funeral will come out of your estate.

Another thing. Think extremely hard before buying an apartment in a retirement complex, especially if it’s brand new. The service charges tend to be very high and have to be paid as long as the apartment is in your name, even if you’re no longer living there. You might not be allowed to rent it out, either.

Because the service charges put many buyers off, you (or your relatives) might have to sell the apartment for far less than you paid for it, and until the sale completes you/your estate will still be paying the service charges.

1. keep up with new technology

That's it

Just curious about the funeral plan - why not?

Just a bit unnecessary. They don't need your money now, it's probably not going to cost less to pay now. Their selling point is it costs your relatives money, when the usual reality is that the estate pays. So if you trust your family to give you the send off you would like and plan with them that sufficient. However, if you think your family won't do what you want then you should get a funeral plan.

No idea how detailed a package plan is though. Say you want the local church for the service, particular hymns and music. Is that part of the plan or is it just whether you have a no frills cremation or a crematorium service or a burial.