Help please not sure what to do with my parents,

[mummy3456]

Hi, My parents lived very successfully on their own until this year ( 88yo and 89yo). Since then they have been in and out of hospital 8 times between them ( since April 2024)
My sibling and I sorted them a lovely care home that we could each visit within 10 minutes drive. After 2 months when my sibing was there they said they hated it and were going to leave. Signed themselves out, sibling bought some groceries and left them in their own home, Texted me to say what was done!
2 weeks later ( and after many visits) I get a call from the neighbour that he'd had to call an ambulance for my mum. Dad couldn't work out how to use the phone but made it down the stairs and across to the neighbours ( he can barely walk - would have taken at least half an hour).

Months before this it was Dad who was sick and the hospital would not discharge to anything but a nursing home.
Mums hospital said the same.
My sibling took them home for the 1 week until the room that they had at the previous nursing home was ready. Got told 3 weeks was as long as they would hold the room.
Well she let it go, so that's gone.
They are living with her but the 24/7 care is not being met as she works 3 days a week. I take them to my place 2 a week for lunch but mum is suddenly terrified of our dogs, and if we put them out they bark.
Dad has already slipped over on our tiles ( not a house made for the elderly). The ambulance crew know the way here.

So ( sorry for ridiculously long post), my sis and I are joint POA and ENduring guardianship. So if I invoke it it doesn't matter as she has to as well. I have had 3 doctors tell me they need 24/7 care ( when they were in hospital at various times but I never got anyone to sign the forms so I am tragically waiting for one of them to have another trip to hospital) . My 12 yo is getting nervy around them and just kind and polite with the repetition, but it's a lot to ask.
They are both getting a bit aggressive,
Mum won't get changed. Dad won't shower.
It's a fecking disaster.
Sister, who caused all this in reality , has now said she needs a break. Gave me 10 days notice that she will be away for 12 days. I can understand that, but she made her bed and suddenly I have to lie in it, I can't drive at the moment due to a foot problem, added problem, my DH starts a new job in 2 days, My mum now weirdly hates my dogs and its school summer holidays here and I won't be able to leave the house so poor DC is stuck in the house. Anyone got any brilliant ideas?

Sorry for long post! Ridiculous.

Do your parents have capacity?

Its obviously very difficult but If they do have capacity then you can't enforce them staying in a care home they don't like...

Well 3 doctors have said no so I think it's safe to say they answer is that they don't have cappacity. But they will hate me, and my sister will hate me , They've been terrible for at least 3 years and I kept telling her and she'd say they were fine. Thank you for your reply. It sux

I think you have to decide between them or your own family doing the hating. Personally I'd ask.thf sister which home they'll be in while she's away so you can visit and leave it with her to sort. If you step in and take them in you may find there's ongoing reasons they "can't go back just yet".

This is going to sound awful but you need to have a word with your sister. Your parents need to be safe in a care home and if she won't join you in insisting that they go back to the home then you need to let her fail.

We had issues with PIL who ended up living with us for a few months. If I had done my usual thing and run around after them, making it easy for DH to work etc they would probably still be here. Instead I made DH deal with the consequences of his decisions. He had to deal with wee on the sofa and poo on the kitchen floor etc so we found a lovely care home for them.

Talk to your sister. If she chooses to have them live with her, it is her decision but you won't bail her out when it gets too hard. They need to be somewhere where they will be safe and have a whole team of people looking after them.

As much as you love them, they need to be cared for 24/7 and that means a care home. Be firm with your sister and flatly refuse to take them in when she's away, tell her that she lost the last place so needs to sort another one asap. Tell her that you'll be supportive, help settle them in and be a point of contact for the home but you won't participate in this pillar-to-post care plan she seems to want as it doesn't work for your parents or for you. Be firm 💐

Completely empathise, it's so difficult.
Would a live in carer be an option at their house? I appreciate this brings many other concerns.

I was also going to suggest a live in carer. Otherwise you have to involve social services.

You need to be firm, and say no. If they ‘hate you’ at least they will be cared for, and you still have your own family to think about. Sounds like your sister is the problem - if she wants to provide care let her crack on. Or a care home. Either way you are not doing it. There’s no way I would have had my mum stay with me - work ft, unsuitable house, etc. You need to set your boundaries op.

Philippa Perry is much quoted in similar situations when she talks of choosing guilt over resentment, and she makes a lot of sense. Your parents need to be in a care home. Your daughter needs and deserves the calm and stability she knew before they moved in. Your sister has acted outrageously to leave you in this situation. Have a very straight talk with her about moving them as a matter of great urgency.

If they don't want to move, in all honesty that's too bad, they need a level of care you simply cannot offer. Things are only going to get very much worse and unless your sister wants them at her house tomorrow, for as long as the poor old souls survive, (and cancels her holiday) then she needs to get on board with moving them into a home asap. Back to my original point, if you feel guilty about moving them to a care home, living with that guilt is 100% preferable to trying to look after them at home.

Assuming you are in Australia, can you talk to ACAT?

Or Dementia Australia? Even just to chat? Ask about safeguarding because your sister is not acting in your parents best interests? (Clutching at straws). Based on the ABC’s reports over the last year, try everything you can to avoid giving them to state care.

Is the issue your sister won't invoke the PoA? If so, your parents need to go live with her if you can no longer do it. She's passing the buck.

If she is named as joint PoA, she needs to step up or revoke. It's decision time, those decisions are hard and come with a personal cost. Head in the sand is not an option.

Sounds very stressful and unsustainable for you,

I don’t know about Australian social care systems but the basic fact is that your parents needs are only going to get higher, they are going to deteriorate more. They are going to have to go into a home as sounds like their needs are already beyond what you or your sister can do.

maybe it will help if you/she think about it in terms of it is inevitable.

Here in the UK you could call on social services for help finding a bed in a care home urgently, presumably that’s an option there too?

a shame if they can’t go back into the first choice home but as you’ve said, that’s your sisters fault really.

Put your foot down.

You can’t bring them to your home as your Dad has already demonstrated that he’s not safe on your slippy floors.

You really couldn’t bring them to your home if you happened to have the decorators in when your sister was away, or if the toilet stopped working.

Social Services, emergency, breakdown of care.

Once they’re in your house they’ll be stuck there for good

Tbh if they don't have capacity I am not clear as to how they simply upped and left the car home? You can't suddenly up and walk out of one if your a resident.

Not read the full thread but she has made her bed by letting them stay with her. While she's away they go into respite whilst either waiting for her to come back or for a care home place. Do not allow them to move in with you. If they need 24 hour care a live in carer would be extortionate at home.

Your parents clearly don't have the physical capacity to remain in their own home. If they would accept that you and your sister could work together to again find the best place possible for them. If they still have mental capacity though it is sometimes difficult to get frail elderly to agree to move into care, even if it's in their own best interests. POA allows you to make the decision for them only if they have lost mental capacity. If they are still mentally capable you probably have a careful persuasive job on your hands which will work best if you can get your sister on board to work with you Your other problem is if your sister doesn't agree. I'm thinking she got persuaded to get them home without thinking of the likely long term effect. Once they had to come to her home, after a while she's realized she's bitten off more than she can chew and is now maybe mentally on the edge herself. Not your fault or problem of course, she took the decision which has landed you all in a big problem. Hopefully she will now be able to see that she made a bad, probably knee -jerk decision in getting them out of the care home and will get on board with you in finding a new place pdq. If so, try to swallow your natural irritation at where you now are to work together. A new normal, where you hopefully can take turns to visit her in the home will happen far more quickly if she is on board and you are working together. 💐

Sit down with your sister and say you can have them living with you when she is away. I would say well let them live with her and geta a carer in while she is away.

This. DONT LET THEM MOVE INTO YOUR HOUSE! It’s not suitable by the sounds of it. What did your sister think was going to happen when they moved in with her? The options are

1. they go back to a care home (seems like the best option)
2. your sister gets a respite carer or they go into respite. Then carers to support her
3. your parents get carers at home

I know you’re not in the UK @mummy3456 but the link below helped me talk to my siblings - it sounds like your parents lack insight into their needs. It may not just be denial or not liking the home. As pp suggested, your sister needs to accept that respite (that will become permanent) in a home is the only way because they need a team of people helping them:
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/help-dementia-care/coping-denial-lack-of-insight
This week DF was openly plotting his return home because he is ‘better’ and thinks he should be rehabilitated and go home but he is only ‘better’ because he has 24 hour support. DF has a good relationship with his carers and doesn’t hate the nursing home now. They have a deprivation of liberty safe-guarding procedure so he cannot ‘sign himself out’. As a pp said, a live in carer would have been prohibitively expensive (and pointless in a home that was not suitable for DF anyway). I hope your sister can see that what your parents want is no longer the right thing to do.

Does Australia (or NZ, whichever you are in) have the equivalent of a deprivation of liberty order? Because it sounds like that's what's needed. This allows someone to be moved to and kept in a care facility against their will, if they don't have capacity and it's in their best interests.

Sorry to hear this - we've recently gone through similar. From an emotional standpoint - try to think that they don't / won't really "hate" you if they don't have capacity. Lack of capacity means they can't make the decisions needed in their best interests, so stands to reason they're a) not going to like someone else making them and b) will never agree with those decisions. It's harsh I know, but if you can get your head around that, it can help.

They signed some forms ( as no POA) and my sister drove them to their home they own. She bought them some groceries and left them to it. As I said it was their neighbour who called the ambulance about mum and that would have taken dad at least 30 minutes to get there to tell him. Dad can't work any phones. ( The neighbours are very lovely and only a few metres from my parents place but it is not their problem. ) So they lasted 2 weeks on their own and are refusing to move into any nursing home. If I invoke my half od the POA I don't know what happens. I need to find that out. Will check with lawyer.
nd yes I have a 12yo on summer holidays who will not be able to leave the house , whilst they are here,I guess he can just play more minecraft,
Absolutely terrible situation. Try not to leave your kids in the same. I'm going to write a will and only name one as enduring guardian and POA. The others will just go along with it as they know he has nothing but my best interests at heart. Try not to leave your kids in a mess. x

Stop covering for your sister. Don't look after them while she's at work/on holiday. She made the mess, she has to feel the consequences. I know it's harsh but you're enabling her bad decisions. They need to be in a care home. Can you find them a room again in the next couple of weeks so they move while sister is on holiday? Then make it clear you won't be caring if she takes them home again.

@mummy3456

So, you don't say what state you are in.

1. Write a time line. Start requesting copies of supporting documentation from doctors, hospital and care home.

2. Get legal advice. As a matter of urgency, ring Dementia Australia The National Dementia Helpline | Dementia Australia. Ask them about a review of your Guardianship Order. Ask them for the name of a solicitor experienced in these matters.

3. Depending upon your advice, apply for an urgent review of the Guardianship Order Guardianship Orders | NSW Government (re the urgent review, I don't know if such a thing is possible).

4. DO NOT talk to your sister about any of this. You need to get yourself educated so you do not get blindsided by her bullheadedness. If your parents end up in hospital, leave them there bedblocking for as long as possible while the whole care home problem is revisited, hopefully with a changed legal situation. If they end up in hospital, try and talk to them without your sister and mention safeguarding, not in their best interests etc. the hospital will have seen it all before and may have good advice for you.

Sadly I am well aware of the NSW Guardinship Tribunal ( Ex DH car crash). I really don't want to go there again. I will if I have to. There is no guardian at the moment as although I think we should invoke it my sister refuses to. My son who is a lawyer said yes I'm pretty fecked unless she agrees so no point. Next point is guardianship tribunal ( which one hospital threatened to do but sister said she had a place at nursing home and would only be a week at her place). So that was the end of that. That was 5 weeks ago. She also leaves them alone 3 days a week. I take them to my place one of those days, but as horribe as it is to say I have spent years caring for people ( DH car crash) and I'm all run out. I just want for them to go to a nice place with a comfy bed, good tv, an ensuite and and an endless array of books. I'd like the same!
I have a lot of people and animals reliant on me which is fine but adding in mum and dad was not on my list.
I'll write it before someone else does - I'm a terrible person.
People please get your stuff in order for your old age or you will leave a catastrophe behid that you aren't around to sort.