Cockroach Café 🪳 🪳 🪳New Year 2025

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome in to the Cockroach Café Bad Daughters’ Room, the rugs and cushions all fresh and clean for the new season.
Good daughters, find your way to the small room behind the stairs. Sorry it’s not as equipped as here, but it doesn’t get much use.
Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through. The way MN works, hopefully this thread won’t appear in any featured lists, and the only people wandering in will be those who understand what it’s all about.
If you have a BIG question, it might be worth giving it its own thread, so as not to swamp this one.
For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. My recent enquiries suggested more people wanted to keep the well known name than wanted to change it to something more savoury, so for the moment it stays.

@EveningSherry usually when we're packing to run away, the phone goes... :/

@EveningSherry you're doing the right thing. I got a lot of help on here a while back with setting boundaries with what I will and won't do. It's tough but it's made life manageable. It's a lot "easier" for the elderly person if they refuse to plan and their daughter then steps up to sort everything out, but it's simply not realistic.

I grew up living with an elderly grandparent around and there is absolutely no way I would do the same to my own children!

@EveningSherry, welcome! I think you are doing the right thing on setting a boundary on what works for you and your own family re caring and the consideration of a parent moving in with you.

My DM asked a few months ago and I felt awful saying no, but DH and I had long known we couldn’t consider it as it would break us and wouldn’t be fair on our DC. I know it works for some families but if you know it wouldn’t work for you, keep that door firmly closed!

Oh and I also realised that a lot of the negative comments from friends and relatives were being relayed to me by the elderly parent concerned in an attempt to emotionally blackmail me into doing something!

Taking a step back and thinking about the comments meant I could then ignore them:
Some were quite possibly fabricated by the elderly person.
An occasional one was genuine but from someone who had been able to retire at 50 with an inheritance and final salary pension and didn't have children so simply didn't have a clue about the realities of modern working and family life.
Some were realistic, understanding the realities of work, family, elderly person at a distance. And I think also grasped that not all families are close and supportive.

@EmotionalBlackmail I too grew up living with a grandparent and it was very difficult at times. It placed huge restrictions on our life and towards the end I had awful anxiety due to their constant illness and hospital admissions. I was also left to get on with a lot by myself because attention was on the elderly person. I'm stunned my DM can't see how difficult it was back then and now thinks I should be doing it for her and putting my DC through it.

@EveningSherry if your mum took in a parent she probably does expect the same for herself. The next time it’s raised I would be inclined to be very honest about the impact it had on your life growing up, and that you will not do the same to your own children. Maybe collect some leaflets for local care homes ready to give to her when she says she feels unable to live independently.

We have had good news this week because DMIL age 90 has been sent back to her assisted living flat after 3 weeks in hospital.

Absolutely, she thinks I should replicate what she did. Ignoring the fact that times are very different now, family life is very different and I have much younger DC. My MIL is the opposite and has always said she would never put any burden on her DC and has had plans in place for years. I suppose I'm disappointed that my own mother knows what mental and physical strain she went through providing elderly care and is happy to put me through the same.

@SockFluffInTheBath @EveningSherry my mum ended up dealing with her own grandmother, her mum and her aunt and she had a nervous breakdown (toxic office & us useless teens didn't help). She always took the line, "don't end up like that, put me in a home!".

The elderly relative I have now was sadly orphaned as a child and never had kids so ....

She doesn't have that instinctive appreciation of the impact this sort of thing has.

We are just muddling along with needy MIL. Her latest confession this week was that she has never actually used a toaster because FIL always did it. We didn't expect to have to give her lessons on how to make a slice of toast!

It's generally bareable for a few weeks and then DH starts to find it all too much and so I go to see her instead and spoil her day. BIL rocks up about once every 6 weeks and causes chaos so he's no help. No idea what the way forward is.

Mum needs new jumpers. She lives in a small town with no clothes outlets to speak of. If I take her to M&S it's an hour to her house then 45 minutes to the nearest store. Even Tesco or Sainsbury's it's nearly 30 minutes from hers to the nearest store with a decent selection. Had a look in Sainsbury's this morning and the instore selection was dreary. So online it is. I'll have to order a few and return whatever she doesn't want. At least I won't have to put up with her complaining about the prices at the top of her voice like the last time I attempted to take her clothes shopping.

@EveningSherry if they looked after an elderly relative at home themselves they either have some insight and self awareness and recognise that they don't want the same for their child because it was such an awful experience.

Or they assume you'll do the same as them because thinking about it would make them address all the problems it caused and they don't want to do that! Mine falls in this camp. I'm sure if she stopped to think about it she'd feel like she did the only thing she could in taking in an elderly parent, so didn't have a choice. And she'd also think she'd done a great job because her children were provided for. As in there was more money around than in her childhood and we had central heating which she didn't have! But she wouldn't recognise the years of ruined Christmases, holidays, family events, restrictions on daily life, emotional harm.

And the truth is she never did personal
care and the elderly grandparent was frail but still able to do their own washing and cooking, and no dementia. Plus she was barely working so much more available.

I found it helpful (again, advice from on here) to think about in terms of building her resilience and helping her to help herself. She might think she'd wants to move in with me, but she'd hate the reality (left on her own for most of the day as we're at work, meals at times that don't suit her, more varied food than she's used to, weekends spent at children's activities).

She might think she'd wants to move in with me, but she'd hate the reality (left on her own for most of the day as we're at work, meals at times that don't suit her, more varied food than she's used to, weekends spent at children's activities).

This is a very good point. I expect they imagine we’d be able to/want to simply drop all of this to wait on them hand and foot.

They might not even be aware how different our "normal" is. Somebody else on here helped me realise that.

Mine is too far away for a day visit, so she'd come for the weekend. So not on a working day. And those visits would be organised around her needs - mealtimes changed, favourite foods chosen, activities selected after much thought, children's party invites turned down. It was an absolute nightmare finding something suitable for elderly person who wants to drink coffee and talk about herself without moving much and ensuring energetic children get some exercise (I thought the garden centre soft play was a perfect solution but this produced lots of tutting as apparently children should be sat quietly!). She had no desire to interact with grandchildren, just wanted to be listened to so would talk non-stop at me.

She wouldn't be aware of all of this effort and had no idea what life was like on a working day. And I'd get through the weekend feeling exhausted and resentful, then feeling like I hadn't had a break when I did return to work!

From her point of view this would be fantastic as a permanent arrangement!

Maybe the way forward is to invite them to tag along- to a very normal day. Parties, swimming lessons, soft play, big food shop- too much walking? Wait in the car, your normal meals at your normal time- and make no compromise at all. None. They might not want to be around so much 😅

@EmotionalBlackmail interesting you say that - we take our 85 year old FIL away at new year most years to an overseas city ( city varies) and it was only the new year just gone I've started to find it really restricting as now would be happy to sit around an awful lot and not much 'doing' - also gets more agitated if any aspect of a routine or arrangement is changed- my H says he's not doing it again

Crisis seems to have passed. She didn't seem as sharp as usual - could just be the depression/mood I suppose - I think we should find the PoA so I can sort banking things if needed.

Has anyone ordered an official copy of a PoA because nobody could find the original?

I have arranged to go over in a couple of weeks, in the hope of discouraging any crises in the mean time IYSWIM.

I have since done this a bit, given up on the special food and adjusted mealtimes! And she visited on a weekday which did not go well - her vision of what WFH involves did not match the reality!

Some is just too difficult or not safe. The swimming lesson wouldn't be safe, she wouldn't be able to manage the stairs to the viewing gallery and wouldn't cope with the bench seats. I don't think she'd cope at all with the noise of a children's party.

Another PP posted about an 85yo becoming less active like this but mine isn't that age yet and has been acting like this since late 60s!

Fully accept the safety point. Flippant reply to everything- noise, stairs, walking- would be ‘ok, wait in the car’. If you visit someone you fall in with their routine. Our mothers seem to feel they are still the parent-in-charge and it is their routine that should be imposed wherever they go.

The no interest in grandchildren, what is that about? My DM behaves as if my DS doesn’t exist. She never asks about him (or me, but I’m used to that). Over the years he has felt ignored, slighted, angry, and now finally pretty indifferent. They have no relationship. It’s so sad. Except I reflect I had very little relationship with her when I was younger, just that DS feels much more able to walk away, whereas even being a bad daughter, I always felt some obligation. (Always the OG of FOG, not so much fear but the others drag you down too..)

Also my DAunt, DM’s sister, who is dead now, once stayed with us after being discharged from hospital for cardiac tests (nothing wrong) and my parents were away so no one to keep an eye on her. DS was small-ish and it was near Christmas, so his school Christmas concert was on one morning. She said she’d “love to see that.” Of course we invited her, and told her what time we’d have to leave the house, only to get the response, Oh I couldn’t possibly get up early! Ffs. All talk and no effort whatsoever.

Thank you all so much for being here. Recent conversation has reminded me that we had a grandparent living with us for a while as children too and all the focus had to be on them. Our father has definitely repeated history and just has no self-awareness of that now despite saying he didn’t want to repeat history back then.

I’ve been told in no uncertain terms not to visit him so I need to shake the FOG and just live my life own life for a while and break that cycle for my DC sake.

It isn't just mothers, my DF has absolutely no awareness of how real life with a family and children works at all. We get unrealistic demands for us to go up there to sort something out like he TV that he can't turn on. Yesterday DH said he would come up and sort it out, 5 minutes later he is phoning saying 'where is he then', I felt like saying we'll he hasn't developed the power of teleportation yet. Or when he came out of hospital he had no acknowledgement of DH saying if you want my help to go to bed you need to go at X time because I am up early with the children/work etc. He would refuse then DH would end up being there later and later and was just exhausted juggling it all until we discovered that he actually was getting up the stairs on his own in the day and I said no more. They are very selfish about their needs so you have to put firm boundaries in place otherwise they will drain everything from you with their neediness.

Drain everything from you with their neediness is right @Choconuttolata - I know their world becomes very small and it magnifies every little thing for them but the unrealistic demands are still not right or fair.

I've never understood the no interest in grandchildren either. I didn't realise it was happening at first. The first batch of gc (not my kids) are adults now and I thought my parents were genuinely upset at not being involved with them, as the in-laws took central stage. I was actually quite cross about it on their behalf!

Since the second batch arrived (now primary-aged, including my kids) I've realised the moaning about in-laws was an excuse for their own non-involvement. It's not about childcare, I wasn't expecting that, it's the lack of any support or involvement. I've had about two weeks in hospital in total since having kids and no offer of help from family. And I feel so sad that other kids have grandparents who take them to the park, or for an ice cream or go to the school nativity. She does give Christmas and birthday presents but they're usually something that's for the wrong age/wrong size or something that she'd know the child hates if she actually knew them.

The only time she ever asks about them is if she wants a story to share with her friends so she can pretend to be an involved grandparent. It seems to be all about appearances.