How to stop 92 year old from driving

[bigboots303]

I know this has been well discussed before, so I am throwing my hat in the ring as well.
My dad is 92 years and still drives. Loves it!
I am obsessed with the idea that he should stop now. It is causing some heated debates because he is resisting my strong persuasive arguments. He doesnt want to change his habits or life, which involves lots of driving.
I love my dad and hate to upset him but I really feel his age makes him less capable at driving. The natural age-related loss of balance, coordination and slowing of reflex and reaction times make him a risk to others.
How can he possibly be a safe driver at that age? It makes no sense to me, even though he has had a fairly clean driving record.

As for his potential loss of independence, he is recently moved to a nice retirement flat close to family and plenty of taxi firms and even a regular bus from the flats to town. He could adjust I am sure. If he wanted to...
He is quite frail and doddery, which is understandable at his age. He is of sound(ish) mind and has reasonable eyesight. He is very stubborn and I am failing to get through to him. I have tried everything from reasonable debate, tough words, even begging and emotional blackmail.
To no avail. He is unmoved.

I am trying to protect others from what he could cause.
Am I being unfair on him, do you think?

We have just gone through this with my mum who is 80 . It was very sad for her and she said we were ruining her life and taking away her independence. Her car failed the mot so after lots of conversations she has said she’s still not happy with us interfering but she probably won’t get another car. I couldn’t live with myself if she hurt herself or someone else. The only downside is now I’ve moved nearer I’m her uber driver 🤣

I do not understand how people get so defensive about people being asked to not drive.
Driving is a privilege and not a right and it involves a very dangerous piece of machinery that can and does kill people.
I personally think everyone should have to retake their test at least a couple of times over their lifetime. Drivers and conditions are constantly changing and it's clear that many people on the road (of all ages) should be taking more care.
We have dealt with 3 relatives who needed to stop driving over the years.

1. My grandad - not a great driver to start off with & someone who got his licence before the test came in, was still driving until his late 80's. He was a liability on the road but had great confidence in himself so wasn't easily swayed.

We tried persuasion & reason however in the end it was suggesting that his grandson (my brother) needed a car that got him to stop at 88 as he passed it (along with its many dents) on to him.

1. My grandfather in law - as he became more frail and with slower reactions, driving with him became terrifying again someone who gained his licence in very different conditions struggling with (although he'd never admit it) increasing traffic and decreasing reactions. He would not give up and his wife begged us to do something. After trying logic, reason and her hiding the car keys, after one visit the problem was solved when the spark plugs mysteriously disappeared from the car. His wife had a word with the garage (they had used for decades) and the car was 'unfixable'
2. My mum was diagnosed with dementia 9yrs ago in her late 60s although the decline started before this (she covered it up quite well) she didn't want to give up driving as that would be an admission of the disease.

Her driving (not great to start with) declined (although I'd be hard pressed to say exactly why, it just got worse - I think her driving decisions were just more flawed) and 'luckily' there was a news item about an elderly driver with dementia knocking someone over. I used it and went full on guilt trip, asking how would she feel if she crashed and killed a child, reminding her she had grandchildren. She reluctantly agreed and gave her car to my sister.

Yes being old shouldn't automatically mean you stop driving but if you feel they are no longer safe then something needs to be done to address this. It's too late if they have an accident & someone dies.

you can stop him - if you have legitimate concerns (other than age as simply a number) then you simply write to the DVLA giving his details and your reasons .This will trigger a process that may or may not require him to take a formal drivers assessment. .www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/travel-hobbies/driving/worried-about-someones-driving/

I just don't think it should be up to an elderly persons children to take away keys or report their parent to the DVLA . It should be a mandatory process that all elderly people should have to resit their test every five years and have cognitive function tests.

But what if they were quite honest that they hadn't seen anything like that in your driving - but they reckoned that menopausal women/short people/Hindus/Teachers/Swifties/people on low incomes/Northerners/whatever were likely to be bad drivers and you (maybe, I don't know you) fit into one or more of these categories and so they 'need' to check up on you?

The fact is that there are plenty of people in all of the above example categories who are bad drivers - mainly because they are people, and plenty of people in all categories are bad drivers. But it isn't because they fit into any of those categories.

Chart 1: KSI car driver casualties per billion miles driven, by age and sex, Great Britain:2022

the stats are fairly clear for deaths

Agreed. Not that long ago, there would not have been 80 year olds on the road, they didn't exist in numbers. So, the law has to change to keep up with an aging population.

We took DM's husband's keys away. Not even our Dad, but we were in loco parentis! His car had so many dents and scrapes. The children had refused to go in the car with them for years. Finally he ended up losing himself on the way to the local church and had to call a friend to go get him. He really should have given up at about 80, in the end he was 84.

There are many, many, like him. It is an increased risk, it's not ageist, look at the insurance premiums. Based on risk. Same as with private healthcare.

I agree with this. I have my doubts about DFs driving (age 91) but I have no concrete evidence and I think he would probably disown and disinherit me if I reported him or took away his keys. There are some on here that will say I am the world's worst for not doing exactly that, but I shouldn't have to as there should be some other mechanism in place.

This is a recent issue with the elderly as previously longevity wasn't so great and car ownership as extensive. It seems fairly obvious that there should be some testing put in place. My 18 year old DS is a fantastic driver but I have to pay a fortune to insure him on my car, I don't even think DFs insurance is that expensive.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023

Goodness, that's an arrogant post! You think that people who have a different opinion from you obviously 'don't understand'?!

Nobody on here is trying to claim that there aren't plenty of older folk who shouldn't be driving - same as plenty of younger folk, actually - but you can't just tap your nose and say "Old people, you know what they're like!" and assume that makes it a fact.

For centuries, women have been prevented from doing a great many things because "Women! We all know what they'd be like if we let them loose in society! We all know that they obviously can't do X well because, well, you know, they're women... I've heard of a few women who have been hopeless at a task, so I think that categorically proves to us that no woman could ever do it properly. It's probably linked to their periods or having babies or planning their next hairstyle or party outfit or... something... that makes them simply unable to concentrate."

Why are some people so desperate to take away the freedoms of many safe older drivers, just because some older drivers are no longer safe to drive and need to give up?

That's a bit of a step! People aren't normally totally fit to drive one day and in danger of killing someone the next. There's usually a deterioration, and that is the stage that relatives hope to pick up. There's nothing in the post you were replying to that suggested the poster was advocating ignoring all the little signs of declining ability and waiting till a death.

Before we start testing everyone every year, would it not be a good idea to use the provisions we already have? Make the self assessment more rigorous? DVLA to act more promptly if they are alerted to concerns? May be add in a requirement for everyone to produce an optician statement that their eye-sight is acceptable for driving (could be a tick box on the prescription form)? Have an indication on the driving licence that it's valid only if the driver is wearing glasses or contacts?

My wife in her 30s can’t catch a tennis ball if it is thrown at her 🤣

You can't stop him i am afraid. As a Gentleman with full capacity he can do what he likes within the law, and it really doesn't matter what you think. His choices, even unwise ones are his to make. Not yours.

If you have evidence he is a danger to himself and others. You can contact his GP and raise concerns. If there's a diagnosis that would cause concern then GP can contact DVLA and he may very well be asked to retest. But there is no solid path to aging, each journey is different. That's why he is still allowed to drive.

If not, then just leave him alone?! I know many elderly drivers that are far more careful, kind and patient on the roads than many middle aged people! You have absolutely no right to treat him like this unless you have solid evidence to support your protection of others. And you make no mention of any?

My father drove until 94, he stopped because the maintenance of the car at next MOT was likely to be more than it was worth. I had not felt I wanted him to stop driving but was glad that it was one less thing to deal with when he passed away

What concerned us with FIL’s frailty was his ability to move his foot fast enough from the accelerator to the brake should a situation arise that required a fast deceleration.

My DM would hit the brake instead of the accelerator and then stall the engine. Of course it was always ‘an electrical problem, the car just cut out’. She was lucky not to have someone go into the back of her.

Interesting - particularly as, off the top of my head, incidents where elderly drivers have caused death or serious injury are often caused by them hitting the accelerator hard instead of the brake.

To all those dismissing the OP on grounds of ageism - she isn't concerned simply because of her DF's age - she is concerned because she can see his health declining in a number of ways, and ways which will inevitably affect his driving ability.

Edited to add - a number of posters have said that having to stop driving will have a seriously detrimental effect on older relatives. My elderly DM had to stop driving after a stroke which affected her eye-sight (loss of about 25% vision to the left in both eyes). She is now physically fitter as she is walking more, she is getting to know the local bus and taxi drivers - so a social aspect to it, and she has pretty much memorised the local bus timetable - so another way of keeping her brain more agile.

The OP has said that her DF lives in an area where he has options for bus and taxi travel, so giving up the car wouldn't mean giving up his independence.

My step is 82. He had recently stopped going on unfamiliar roads and has decided to drive locally only. He is operating within his perceived capabilities. Mother had to stop on medical advice last year after heart surgery.

In the last year, their local bus service has been reduced from one every half hour to one every hour. The last bus is now 6.20pm. The first available bus on a bus pass is at 10.20. The GP is about 1.5 miles away. The route has also been changed. To reach their local shopping centre (about 6 miles) it now takes three buses and with waits up to 90 minutes each way.

Their local taxi firms are very poor and waits are often 1.5 hours. The firms now refuse trips of less than three miles on a timely basis. The local council has rejected Uber operating in the area because of its impact on local firms.

They used to be well connected. They live in a nice coastal area, not remote at all, which has a high proportion of elderly people.

I can well understand why many elderly people do not want to give up driving. Their house has a downstairs bedroom and bathroom and is ideal for their needs as they get older. They have lived there since 1981 and have no wish to move. If step stops driving they will not be able to get to the GP or up to the village for the local Sainsburys without the trip taking up to two hours (for a 3 mile round trip).

If society wants the elderly to stop driving, something needs to be done about local transport services.

I know many elderly drivers that are far more careful, kind and patient on the roads than many middle aged people!

Exactly this. We all know that inappropriately high speed is one of the most dangerous factors on the roads - both in causing accidents in the first place and in increasing the likelihood of death and severity of injury when they do happen.

Every time you see a car speeding away and going far too fast for the conditions and/or legal limit, try to have a look at who's behind the wheel. Pound to a penny, it isn't going to be an elderly person.

I do think the word 'elderly' is often used - quite probably unthinkingly and without deliberate malice - in a derogatory and dismissive way; and I really wish we could stop this as a society.

Practically speaking, 'elderly' does obviously mean that somebody may be more frail and less physically/mentally capable and/or more in need of various kinds of assistance than a younger person might; BUT it categorically is not a synonym for 'hopeless' or a reason to patronise and treat them as though they're pretty much effectively dead and useless but still just about alive on a technicality.

One day, all of us will be elderly too... if we're lucky.

Actually they are:

optical.org/en/guidance/disclosing-confidential-information/vision-and-safe-driving-what-to-do-if-a-patient-s-vision-means-they-may-not-be-fit-to-drive/

Your responsibilities as an optician:

1. You should inform the DVLA/DVA where:
2. you have assessed that a patient may not be safe to drive; and
3. you consider that they will not or cannot inform the DVLA/DVA themselves; and
4. you have a concern for road safety in relation to the patient and/or the wider public.

Young drivers cause accidents by driving too quickly and recklessly, old people cause accidents for different reasons.

The table up thread showed clearly that per person driving the over 75s caused a lot more accidents than any other age group. Females in the older age groups cause more accidents than males.

It only feels less prevalent because there are in fact less elderly people driving.

And yes I hope to be elderly too one day. I also hope that I will recognise my own limitations when they arise- I hate driving so can't see it being an issue, DH on the other hand ....

Report her anonymously to the DVLA. How will you feel if she kills or injures someone or herself and you hadn't tried to stop her from driving?