How to stop 92 year old from driving

[bigboots303]

I know this has been well discussed before, so I am throwing my hat in the ring as well.
My dad is 92 years and still drives. Loves it!
I am obsessed with the idea that he should stop now. It is causing some heated debates because he is resisting my strong persuasive arguments. He doesnt want to change his habits or life, which involves lots of driving.
I love my dad and hate to upset him but I really feel his age makes him less capable at driving. The natural age-related loss of balance, coordination and slowing of reflex and reaction times make him a risk to others.
How can he possibly be a safe driver at that age? It makes no sense to me, even though he has had a fairly clean driving record.

As for his potential loss of independence, he is recently moved to a nice retirement flat close to family and plenty of taxi firms and even a regular bus from the flats to town. He could adjust I am sure. If he wanted to...
He is quite frail and doddery, which is understandable at his age. He is of sound(ish) mind and has reasonable eyesight. He is very stubborn and I am failing to get through to him. I have tried everything from reasonable debate, tough words, even begging and emotional blackmail.
To no avail. He is unmoved.

I am trying to protect others from what he could cause.
Am I being unfair on him, do you think?

Both absolutely humongous and expensive cars to suggest for a 92 year old. Not sure that will solve the OP’s concerns. Now her doddery old father will be driving a 20 tonne vehicle around!

Doubt they’d even insure him.

but if he causes an accident because his reactions or whatever were not fast enough at 92 years old. How could they be? Research has shown that people adjust their driving to their reaction times, not driving so close to the car in front, for example.

For me this is key. You don’t feel safe enough to be in a car with him so that’s a clear indication that even if there aren’t specifics you can list he probably shouldn’t be driving. And that to me is the case regardless of age.

But they’re not responsible for as many deaths and serious injuries, even per mile.

Sit in the car with him whilst he drives and see what it's like. Either it'll reassure you or you'll have something more definite to point out to him.

Insurance premiums are an indicator of who is viewed as more risky. Young men have very high premiums. Premiums seem to rise very high again at about 80. Could be worth a chat to find out how much his insurance is, compare it to your own (I know when I did this mine had no idea I was paying about a fifth what she was as she'd just read articles about premiums increasing in the media and assumed they were all that high!). Could be useful if/when you have to start pointing him towards taxis and buses as x amount on insurance would pay for y taxis.

What sort of driving is he doing? Older people often stop driving at night or on busy roads but a few scrapes in a daytime supermarket car park could still be lethal to another older person or a toddler who can't get out of the way in time.

My sister isn't even 60 and I don't like getting in a car with her.

Report him to dvla ... NOW

@Moveoverdarlin a 20 tonne vehicle with automatic breaking and an excellent safety record if he does manage to crash it or someone crashes into him. The Tesla even parks itself! The OP didn't say her dad couldn't afford to drive.

For … being old???

His date of birth is on his driving licence, so presumably they ALREADY KNOW.

@HappiestSleeping Which just goes to show that drivers can be terrible at any age. My best friend has been a truly dreadful driver since we first met when we were in our twenties. Now that she's reached retirement age, she's no better but definitely no worse.

I know! I’ve got one. Ridiculous car for a 92 year old. The OP wants him to stop driving as he’s not safe not invest in an all singing all dancing 70k car. Unless he’s exceptionally bright for his age he’ll struggle to grasp the technology surely. At 92 does he want an electric car? Does he want a charger installed at his flat? Will he be able to work the Tesla app on his phone? Does he even have a phone??

Many of the safety features on modern cars won’t counteract the failing senses of a 93 year old man. My FIL opened his car door without looking and a vehicle came along and took the whole thing off.

How does that relate to driving? I'd have failed that in my teen years as I'm useless at ball games 😂

My dad was told to give up driving for 2 years in his late 70s, due to a health condition.
We had already noticed his driving hsd deteriorated, so it was quite a relief that a medical person took that decision.

He was quite adamant that after 2 years he would get his licence back and get a new car.
However he lived in an area covered by tfl and got free bus and train travel, and occassionally took taxis. He really noticed how much money he saved from.not having to insure, and tax the car, or parking (but obviously he was lucky that he lived in an area with good public transport)

Next time he has a doctor’s appointment ask them to do a DVLA check on him. Doctors have to do a DVLA check if they suspect their patient is medically unfit to drive.

It’s a tough sitch as your Dad understandably wants to continue driving. It’s probably not so much out of bloody-mindedness as the fact that if he stops driving he’ll lose a really important freedom and aid from his life - driving likely gives him the opportunity to easily get to the shops, see his friends/family, and get out the house. He’ll be losing a lot if he can no longer drive. That being said, if you genuinely think he doesn’t have the capacity to drive anymore and isn’t safe, he needs to get off the road. Tough situation for you and your Dad, wishing you both luck.

This. We did it with our mother. Unsurprisingly, she failed and was advised to take driving classes. When she found out the cost, she sold the car. Job done.

Does OPs fathers GP suspect he is medically unfit to drive?

On what basis would OP have to request this, at a confidential appointment in any case!

Quite. I sympathise with @bigboots303 though as my mum is also at the end of her driving career. This, in my view, is due to ability though, and not age. She can't process things quickly any longer, and is a danger to herself and those around her. She's in her mid 80s.

At a GP appointment if OP is in attendance (and family often attends, esp for elderly relatives) OP could say ‘I am concerned about my father’s driving, is that something we could talk about?’. Obviously won’t work if OP not in attendance, but was just an idea.

Whilst it's true that many older drivers may not be unsafe on the road in comparison to younger (poor or inexperienced drivers) people need to accept that when we get older our reflexes decline.

In addition, becoming physically more frail means you become less able to press a brake peddle as hard as you may need to, or sharply turn the steering wheel to avoid someone.

Or being unable to hear when an emergency vehicle is behind you.

It's not as simple as still being cognitively capable.

It's a very emotive subject and taking away someone's independence is not to be taken lightly.

That however has to be balanced against the risk of that person increasingly becoming a danger to themselves and others.

When people say, well they will only drive locally now and not on major roads this is a red flag. If there is a recognition that driving skill has declined to a point a person is actively avoiding faster/busier roads then they should not be driving at all. You can kill someone at 30mph just as at double that speed - the only difference is it's more likely to be a pedestrian or cyclist and the driver will be unharmed.

I'm sure there are some remarkable individuals who are good drivers at 92 but they will be very, very rare indeed. The OP's father may be one of them.

If he is, then there is no reason why he would not agree to get his driving assessed.

For all those saying the OP should back off, I'd suggest that you consider that the vast majority of people at 92 are not still fit to drive.

Waiting to do a Prince Phillip and have an accident before handing back your license is not responsible.

So, I'd be firm in this case. He takes an assessment or I would be calling the DVLA.

Firstly her father would have to give consent for that discussion, stop treating old people ilke they have no agency and no capacity

Secondly, on what basis, OP hasnt even been able after several pages to provide any evidence of what the concerns so why would the GP suspect he is medically unfit to drive.

Has he had his eyesight properly assessed recently? Has he told the optician he's still a driver?
Personally I think he's too old.

My fil is 76 and commuted by car a lot and was always a great driver. Past 2 years I've noticed a big decline- not paying attention to the road, slow reflexes where I've actually had to say stop. I refuse to have my dc in the car with him now. He used to pick us up from the airport (for nearly 20 years) as it's only an hours drive but now we hire a car as I'm not taking the risk.

i get where you’re coming from, but actually he wouldn’t have to give consent for that discussion. If another person or the GP suspects that someone is unfit to drive, they are legally obliged to investigate it as it could lead to a fatal accident. Many people who are unfit to drive don’t ‘consent’ to that discussion as they want to continue driving. Many people who are unfit to drive insist that they are fit to drive.

In terms of ‘evidence’, you’re right OP would have to give evidence. It can’t just be that he’s old as you’re right, that’s not a basis on which to deny someone the right to drive, which is an important form of freedom, especially for the elderly. It would have to be based on things such as impaired vision, poor reflexes, difficulty in steering etc.

If ONLY we all had to take regular tests from age 70, more and more older people would not drive, it would become more usual not to, many would stop earlier (when they can still learn new patterns) AND public transport would improve.

at an individual level, it’s all so hard. At a societal level, well, how and why is it that we think so much suffering and cost is ok????

Your fears don't seem founded in any fact - you say you're obsessed with him driving. If there's no proof of any danger - no dents, dings or incidents plus no sign of cognitive decline then not sure you can take his car away just because he's old and you think he should stop. Fil was diagnosed with mixed dementia and we had the discussion with the doctor, reported to DVLA and also asked the police for advice. The doctor suggested he get tested at an assessment centre. We showed him where to go and did a dummy run. On the day of the test he got lost and needed to be rescued. We then took the car away saying when he could renew his licence and insurance himself, book the assessment again he could have the car back. It's not going to happen. How is your dad renewing his licence and insurance - I'd check he's doing that firstly.

Yes, this. For some reason, that reminds me of some of the baby name threads, where people (who don't always appear to be having a laugh) are set on giving their baby a truly objectively horrifyingly bad and embarrassing name - because they've supposedly always really loved the name.

Any time somebody asks the perfectly reasonable question as to why they/their DH haven't changed their own name to Vercingetorix or Chlamydia or whatever - or why they don't just use it informally and introduce themselves to new people they meet as that - they never seem to have an answer.