How to stop 92 year old from driving

[bigboots303]

I know this has been well discussed before, so I am throwing my hat in the ring as well.
My dad is 92 years and still drives. Loves it!
I am obsessed with the idea that he should stop now. It is causing some heated debates because he is resisting my strong persuasive arguments. He doesnt want to change his habits or life, which involves lots of driving.
I love my dad and hate to upset him but I really feel his age makes him less capable at driving. The natural age-related loss of balance, coordination and slowing of reflex and reaction times make him a risk to others.
How can he possibly be a safe driver at that age? It makes no sense to me, even though he has had a fairly clean driving record.

As for his potential loss of independence, he is recently moved to a nice retirement flat close to family and plenty of taxi firms and even a regular bus from the flats to town. He could adjust I am sure. If he wanted to...
He is quite frail and doddery, which is understandable at his age. He is of sound(ish) mind and has reasonable eyesight. He is very stubborn and I am failing to get through to him. I have tried everything from reasonable debate, tough words, even begging and emotional blackmail.
To no avail. He is unmoved.

I am trying to protect others from what he could cause.
Am I being unfair on him, do you think?

Is he insured? My grandad couldn't get insurance after 80 odd. Or it was very expensive.

They could do with having a compulsory eyesight test - for all drivers. I have a relative who is just over half of OP's DF's age who drives but has never had her eyes tested since she was a child.

As far as she's concerned, her eyes "are fine", so she simply doesn't see the need.

What's the point of a compulsory MoT for cars each year when the driver could have been seriously losing their vision but not realising it because it's happened very, very gradually over maybe decades?

As for possible problems using a gearstick and/or handbrake, automatic cars are extremely commonplace nowadays - so no gearstick and you can usually just leave it in Park; or if you're on a hill, modern electric handbrakes take no strength at all to apply or remove.

Within a couple of decades or less, there will barely be any manual cars around anywhere, anyway.

I'm probably more conscious than most of people declaring that ALL drivers over a certain age should automatically lose their licences, as I have a medical condition that, when well controlled and monitored, has no impact on your safeness to drive. If anything, we're possibly safer than drivers without the condition, as we know to be aware and cautious about our capacity at all times.

Nevertheless, a tiny minority of people with this condition have in the past not been responsible, with sometimes tragic results. Because of this, there are a great many people who insist that we should 'err on the safe side' and take away the right to drive from all of us.

It's a slippery slope, when it's not based on factual evidence and individual circumstances. We could say that nobody under 20, or 25, or 30 should be allowed to drive, as they lack maturity and general life experience. We could say that anybody who wears glasses can't drive, because there's a minuscule chance that they might fall off at the wheel, or one of the lenses become loose.

Parents of children under 8 shouldn't drive either, as they may well be distracted from driving safely by their kids. Anybody who routinely drives forwards on to their drive instead of reversing on is clearly not observing good, basic safety (as according to the Highway Code), so they need to lose their licences after three offences. People who live in big cities with excellent public transport shouldn't be allowed to drive, as they won't be doing it regularly enough to gain enough road experience and retain their road sense.

Anybody who originally comes from a country where they drive on the right and/or English is not an official language is an absolute no-no, as they might forget to drive on the left and won't be used to our signs, especially ones with writing on them.

Women should be banned from driving, as fluctuating hormones might affect their moods and make them emotionally risky, plus may also be pregnant and thus potentially suffering from 'baby brain' and/or be too big to fit comfortably behind the wheel; so best just be safe and leave it all to the men. Men should be banned from driving, as they tend to drive more erratically and faster than women, so best just be safe and leave it all to the women - whom we've already just banned..........

You need to get in the car with him and see what he's like, he could well be fine. My dad was, but as he got older, he was better doing local trips and I would drive them if it was further afield. He didn't have any crashes until what turned out to be his final year and even then whilst he got the blame, I'm not entirely convinced they were all his fault and the other cars should have been able to stop if they were driving to the speed limit. Without dashcam evidence there's nothing the insurance companies will do though. I went go back to the accident site with him and he would describe/show me what happened and I would deal with the insurance company for him as he was quite deaf. I knew from a lifetime of him being around that he was a good sensible safe driver with an excellent record over many many miles, he'd never caused an accident and the one time he was in a crash, it was the other drivers fault.

Dad died at 96 1/2, he was driving until about 6 weeks before he died when he stopped because he started getting random dizzy spells. He just told us about the dizziness and he didn't want to drive any more as he didn't feel safe.

Your dad may still be fine, maybe not up for trips round the M25 but still fine to go down the road to the shops or see his friends.

You can't just do it on age.

Premiums seem to rise very high again at about 80 start rising at 70-ish but don’t get to the levels of 20 year olds till 90 in my experience.

The OP wants him to stop driving as he’s not safe The OP wants him to stop driving as he’s old. Slight difference.

but obviously he was lucky that he lived in an area with good public transport Sadly that isn’t true for 90 per cent of the country.

You’re implying that stopping driving should only be considered AFTER someone displays evidence of very poor driving. This is a dangerous suggestion. See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2022/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2022

The OP is being proactive and responsible.

It looks to me like you aren’t basing your opinion on his actual driving, just on his age.

There are far more accidents caused by young drivers than older ones.

Leave him alone.

For those on this thread who agree with the OP, they also have the support of a concerned coroner, too. https://www.judiciary.uk/prevention-of-future-death-reports/dorothy-nias-prevention-of-future-deaths-report/

There is a campaign at the moment: government to force insurance companies to not ‘discriminate’ against elderly drivers through high insurance premiums.

My understanding is that insurance premiums are pretty much the only mechanism causing elderly drivers to re-consider driving (as GPs do not get involved, there is no obligation for opticians to report to dvla and the elderly can simply self-certify).

As pp have mentioned, the over-90s I know who have driven until recently have been effectively priced off the road by huge insurance premiums. After 90 it really does seem to rise sharply. I assume that's deliberate.

Another coroner’s report here. Dementia + death of a baby. Presumably the government decided to ignore it. www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Louis-Thorold-Prevention-of-future-deaths-report-2023-0311_Published.pdf

Well it's risk-based isn't it? The insurance companies will have the data on age of driver and number of accidents, plus the cost of dealing with the damage caused.

There’s nothing wrong with checking that it’s ok for him to operate a machine that can kill, and also injury terribly, people if not used correctly, with use based on ability and reactions and anticipation. If I was that old I’d be putting myself forward for a driving ability test/seeing my GP to get the all clear or the stop to driving. I’d be happy that my family cared and also checked on other things such as internet use due to scams, banking online use, hydration, eating regularly, the tv remote, using a phone, letting family know when things stop working such as heating (the elderly often think they’ll just manage without whatever) etc

Trouble is, there isn't capacity either within GP surgeries or driving test examiners to deal with the large number of people who would be required to seek a medical opinion or retest. The wait for a driving test is already enormous, and it's something like a 7 week wait at my GP for a routine appointment.

It's a good idea but it needs a lot more people to make it feasible.

It used to be risk based too between male and female drivers because male drivers are a higher risk but that was considered discriminatory so the premiums for women went up

My dad was an advanced driving instructor and was an excellent driver until his health deteriorated significantly at the age of 80 when he surrendered his license.

My sister is a bloody awful driver at 52 and is famous in our family for taking out the same bollard three times in quick succession. DS is 23 and getting in the car with him is like a scene from Driving Miss Daisy.

My 57 year old friend has become very hesitant when driving and has been rear ended twice due to stopping unexpectedly at roundabouts.

Four young lads burned to death in a car accident not far from me a few years ago and several other boys were killed recently due to a speeding driver inhaling hippy crack behind the wheel.

Just from my limited personal experience, I don’t think you can judge fitness to drive on age alone.

If OP has actual concerns (rather than just ‘he’s old’), then suggesting a driver assessment is a good plan.

My DM was absolutely medically unfit to drive, as evidenced by a consultant’s letter to her GP that both she and the GP ignored (although I can see why the GP wouldn’t want to get involved) - she couldn’t do an emergency stop, her eyesight wasn’t great and she couldn’t turn her head to check for traffic. She refused to take a driving assessment as we all knew she would fail.

She finally had to stop at age 92 when a medical diagnosis meant it had to be declared to the DVLA and her licence was revoked. She was an absolute liability on the road and wouldn’t listen to anyone, despite us, friends, neighbours and kindly strangers sorting out her driving crises telling her she shouldn’t be on the road.

Saying ‘I only drive locally’ is no defence - the majority of accidents occur within 5 miles of home, and those journeys are more likely to be in populated areas with pedestrian and cyclist hazards.

Also don’t rely on insurance costs to act as a deterrent - my DM said she would pay whatever it takes to be able to keep driving.

I would

• have him drive me somewhere and video it dash cam style
• if he drives dangerously, I’d notify DVLA and mention you have footage
• if he drives perfectly fine, then you will feel better and can arrange another outing in a months time.

That shows that women have to be.over 75 to exceed the rate for 17 - 24 year olds, and that even 86+ year old men don't reach that rate.

I imagine the higher rates for women in the older age groups reflects less access to cars for that age group, and the discrepancy will gradually even out.

No, that is ignoring most of the data. Excluding the high rates for inexperienced drivers, the accident rates start to climb above the general adults level at 70 for women and 75 for men. Young drivers have high premiums too but they generally get safer with age/more practice so there is no point stopping them. Whereas an elderly person with a medical condition is usually getting worse so they need to stop driving as soon as they are unfit, which for some may be in their 70s. If they are still fit to drive then they have nothing to fear.

My mum has already surrendered her licence at 75 due to dementia (reluctantly as the dementia prevents her understanding) and I'm getting worried about my dad who's just 80. He has no particular condition but his driving and steering is erratic. So we are in the same bind.

How would you feel if somebody told you that they were going to do that to you, to check up on your driving, as they'd decided that some or other characteristic that you have may possibly make you a bad driver?

Diffrence is, younger drivers will be getting better and older drivers will be getting worse.

I would be really worried that they had seen something in my driving or reaction times that I hadn't seen. Most importantly I would listen and think.
That's how I'd feel about it. I think those who would be offended or angry, well, that's even more worrying.

It's utterly baffling to me how so many replies are crying ageism and or calling OP interfering.

Mandatory regular retesting from 70 would be ideal but unlikely to happen any time soon.