FIL wants to go into a home - but he’s medically fine!

[rickyrickygrimes]

He’s lonely, has some forgetfulness (but no dementia etc), no major physical conditions except a bad hip which is not bad enough to be on a waiting list for a replacement. He’s had a complete medical and memory check up very recently, and they haven’t found anything other than the above. He has been put on anxiety meds.

He basically wants to go into a home because he doesn’t want to look after himself. He’s never had to in his life, and frankly he hates it. He lives alone, with my SIL providing his food , doing some housework / ironing etc and visiting 3-4 times a week. But for him, it’s not enough.

He wants someone else to do all his housework, do his laundry, provide his food, give him company, and bring him a cup of tea and some cake every two hours. He can’t drive any more, and is refusing to use taxis. He’s spent the last 5 years visiting Mil in her nursing home, and it looks to him like the ideal solution. The big difference is, of course, that Mil had advanced Parkinson’s, osteoporosis and dementia when she went in - so social services agreed that there was no alternative, and she has been fully funded in a very care home.

FIL went to visit her today, and told his woes to one of the nurses. She said he’s welcome to move in whenever he wants, no waiting list for him 🙄

am I right in thinking that he will be self funding? Because there is no medical need for him to be in residential care and any care assessment would confirm that he doesn’t need to be in residential care?

and if he is self funding, what would happen after his money runs out approximately 1,5 years later 🙄

C H C is the governments best kept secret. Fully funded nursing care in a home of your choice if you meet the criteria which is basically having a short time to live. Google it.

FNC is the next band down usually 1000£ a month towards your nursing care in a home . Google this.

nursing homes £6000-£8000 a month

sheltered housing approx £1000-£1500 a month. Plus carers at £20 an hour .

I would absolutely support this. My great grandparents had a beautiful house on a wonderful retirement community in Oxfordshire, very desirable location, great local community and amenities, and it’s been on the market for almost 3 years, accumulating £6,000 per year in management fees, plus council tax. My grandparents maintain the house, there is nobody using the services the estate provides, and they are still charging £500 per month for services! The company who run the estates do the sale of property, not estate agents, and they are not proactive whatsoever about getting properties shifted, as they make £500 a month whether it’s empty or not. It’s a nightmare, so don’t let him buy anything. A rented flat at a sheltered accommodation, a pick up and drop off to a nice day centre, or some formal hired help would be much better. Sounds like a lazy bugger but you obviously can’t blame him being lonely. Sounds like he’s been coddled by the wife all his life which looking back I’m sure was quite lovely.

He wants to spend that money. His money. And the home have said he would be welcomed/ eligible. Either he has capacity to make the decision and understand the consequences, or he doesn’t- which is it?
OP’s post basically just slagged off her FIL, so I’m not sure where you got that she is distressed. It’s not her father and she seems to think he’s unpleasant. But I guess losing a substantial family inheritance might be distressing to someone bothered about that kind of thing.

People are @ ing me the same thing over and over… I’m not repeating the same thing any more so anyone wanting to rage at me, please answer your own question and read my previous responses

Well maybe he is unpleasant?

Ah ok. That's really difficult & I'd imagine other posters are correct that sheltered accommodation would be his only option which really only comes from homelessness or extremely poor mental health.

@trappt be cheaper!!

They absolutely wouldn’t, he would be assessed and classed as homeless, the council would then step in and he would be placed on the homeless listing (if he didn’t then meet the criteria for residential, nursing or EMI care).
There is also a huge risk that he would become institutionalised during this time frame yet still not meet the criteria for care and support which would leave him very vulnerable. The LA would assess him when his funding drops near £22350 and if he did not have significant care needs, funding would simply not be approved. Local authorities work to a strength-based approach and promote independence before anything else and the sad reality is many local authorities are struggling financially, which means tightening the purse strings.

Even if he could fund for a year or two. This is a huge waste of resources, if he does not meet the criteria for care and support by the time his money as ran out. Extra care housing sounds perfect it will help promote his independence and help with the loneliness. He must be feeling a huge sense of loss, for the last few years he has had a purpose and a reason to get up each morning. The care home has almost become a way of life and he’s felt needed and included. He is now not only soon to be grieving his wife, but his sense of purpose too.

He’s in the process of losing his wife. Not a time to be making huge life changing decisions which WILL result in his homelessness. People make decisions all the time that they’ve not thought through, but OP doesn’t need to worry about his capacity and promoting him to make his own informed decisions. She’s not a professional, she can simply tell him to not be so ridiculous.

Youre so offended that OP seems annnoyed at her FILs life destroying request to sell up and move to a care home, that you’ve decided she must want his money. Maybe she just doesn’t want him sleeping on her sofa in 18m time when he’s homeless and skint with nowhere else to go. Most likely grieving his family home and kicking himself that he did something so reckless and probably questioning why none of his family tried to stop him!

I’m not offended in the slightest. I don’t care a jot. I’m not sure where you got the OP’s concern from either… people seem to be magicking up a tone of concern in the original post which doesn’t exist. I do wonder if her husband- FIL’s actual child- actually has the same ‘concern’

It’s perfectly normal to both care for relatives and be concerned about their future and how the decisions they make will impact that (hence starting this thread), and to be exasperated/irritated by them at the same time. No one is perfect, neither the OP nor her FIL.
I imagine FIL’s actual child doesn’t have the same concern because he isn’t the one expected to deal with all the logistics (and pick up the pieces when it goes wrong). It’s usually the woman who is put in that position.

Bold assumptions based on absolutely nothing the OP said, but fine

Thanks to those who confirmed what I suspected to be true - that without a care assessment finding that residential care is his only option (not a choice), his fees are not going to be paid by the council once his own money runs out. This is useful information as it will help us when we talk with FIL.

everything else on this thread has got a bit ‘cancel the cheque’.

FIL is 86. He is quite stubborn, gets very fixed ideas about things, doesn’t always make very rational choices and gets confused easily by anything financial / legal. MIL was definitely the thinker / doer in their relationship - and also the provider of domestic confort / cups of tea. I have no doubt that he has taken the nurse at her word, and believes that he had been invited to move into the home. He hasn’t: she’s said something meaning to be comforting, and he’s misread it. He has never really understood the financial arrangements of MILs care: he just sees her tiny pension being taken out of their account each month and thinks her care costs £500 a month. 🤷‍♀️. Since her decline there has been a pattern of DH / SIL having to explain things over and over to him. And he still doesn’t get it.

If he has got it into his head that he can move into the home on the same basis that MIL did, then we are going to have a difficult task to convince him otherwise. He has already been offered and rejected all the suggestions made here - lunch clubs, day centres, cleaners, using taxis, sheltered housing, carers etc. Cruises and the idea of befrienders would be met with total bewilderment.

I love my FIL and am trying to best support DH and SIL as they navigate this tricky time. Both of them care deeply for their dad, and part of that is being able to be honest with him and to try and stop him making decisions that are going to backfire badly. Gathering information and facts from the very knowledgable regular posters on this board is usually a great way to do it, and I’m really surprised that this thread has attracted so much attention 🤷‍♀️

If you ask for an assessment from.adult social services that could give you an official 'what we will fund' decision. Might help a bit with the explanation.

Equally as bold as your assumption that the OP is just after his cash 🤷🏻‍♀️

I would encourage your FIL to complete a cognitive assessment and also a capacity assessment as he does seem confused and unable to retain information. You can go through your GP for both of these.

A cognitive assessment is a good idea but old men can stubbornlyrics refused to accept/remember facts that don't suit. Got that t-shirt with FIL as it caused a lot of aggro.

Whilst the care home was trying to be nice and comforting to your FIL, they haven’t helped by making him an offer. It was taken seriously by him and the idea has STUCK. I would ask them to kindly say that this isn’t on the cards, and doesn’t meet his needs, but they wish him all the best in finding the right place that does meet his needs and ££. Maybe it will help him move on from this idea, and he will be open to other suggestions? Also, it’s not family saying he can’t stay there. So not your fault! Best of luck OP in what is very challenging and stressful times for all involved 💐

Ah ok, so your assumptions are fine but everyone else’s are baseless. Got ya.

@rickyrickygrimes I've got my 85 year old FIL for a few weeks starting today as he's waiting for a bungalow purchase to go through - as you say he doesn't understand that she is being covered off due to her conditions. I would phrase it simply - she isn't having to pay due to her conditions - if she was fit and well then she couldn't be there - and if he says 'well others are fit and well' explain that it's costing them £1400 a week or so out their own funds - and he isn't in a position to do that for that long and if he runs out of money and is still fit and well they will just find him some over 55 sheltered accommodation -

Hi ASC SW here. At the point his money runs out, SS will assess. If he has eligible needs for residential care they would provide some funding and he would pay a means tested contribution. If he was not eligible, he would need to either move out or find a means of funding himself sadly.

Fast Track care is fully funded by the NHS for people with a very short time to live. They can be re assessed if they live longer than expected though and may then have to pay.

I've just been through this with my Mum. You have to be quite disabled to get funding for a care home. My Mum is 95, nearly blind, very deaf and is very unsteady, even with assistance. But is otherwise well and fully with it mentally. She's had an assessment and is not considered disabled enough to get financial support. However, she's in a care home anyway as that's what she wanted. What we found was that she can fund around 5 years taking into account her pension (NHS and State), savings and the money from selling her flat. But the impact has been huge in terms of her physical and mental well being. When her money runs out, the plan is to get partial support and pay the difference ourselves.

It's worth doing some calculations that take into account your FiL's pensions, to see if that extends the time too. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Same situation, my mum was fully funded due to care needs 4 visits a day, lovely ladies who also made a fuss of dad, breakfast in bed, cups of if tea lunch, dinner, chat etc mum died and he is outraged that 2x15 min calls a day cost him 300 a week when mum got it free. He is not so impressed with them now. He wants room/waitress service but doesn't want to pay they should want to do it because he is old. He doesn't want to sell his house to go into hotel/retirement home. He doesn't want to join in with local groups. I gave up trying.

One reason I think we should all be paying into an insurance based system with a limit on 'own funds' is we are going to end up with a north/ south kind of divide in many cases- people with £600k houses to sell off are going to have way more choices in this kind of situation than people with £150k houses and whilst life isn't fair - it seems wrong to me that dignity / quality of care and coping in old age is going to be determined by what house you have got / where you were based and how much you might have inherited etc -