AIBU to tell someone they will be dead in 15 years so relax *MNHQ ADDING CONTENT WARNING FOR TOXIC PARENTING DISCUSSION*

[pallindromeemordnillap]

My mother is a complex person. Very loving in some ways but very destructive in others.

She literally will lambast and chastise over spilt WATER not just milk. Making a mountain out of a molehill over very little things is her norm. So much so I remember bursting out crying at a friends house when I dropped a spoon. I’ll never forget the dissonance I felt when the mum gave me a hug and told me not to sweat the small stuff.

Anyway my mum was having a go at my dad for not putting a food clip on the cereal box and I just told her to “give it a rest with the negativity as statistically speaking you are likely to be dead in 15 years and some dry cereal will be of absolutely no consequence”. Normally my mum would retort back but she was clearly gobsmacked.

Dh told me I was a bit nasty for bringing up her death.

AIBU?

Well you seem to have built a pretty big story out of a dropped spoon and a DH not putting his cereal away properly. The OP also says her DM is very loving. Maybe the DM is overly house proud, maybe she was overly strict when her child was young, maybe the child was really sensitive and over-reacted to things her mother did. We have no idea really.

Should you mention impending death to an older person? I don't think so. When you reach a certain age things seem different, all the health problems you assumed will just pass or get better when you are young become more, will this get better or is it something I will have to live with from now on, or is this a symptom of something sinister. I realise I may well not be here in 15 years (or less), but I don't need anyone reminding me of it.

Whilst I can see where the sentiment is coming from, I don't think it's surprising that she was a bit taken aback by the reference to her death.

She literally will lambast and chastise over spilt WATER not just milk.

Hmmm. Did you spill the water on a laptop or a beautiful old dining table and then forget to wipe it up? Or on the kitchen vinyl? Context is everything.

She doesn't need to be reminded about her mortality. She's an anxious person — hence all the fussing about small things, because if she can control all the small things the big anxieties can't eat her. When she looked at you strangely it's probably because you seemed to have guessed what she thinks about, and fears, all the time. Others have pointed out your father's role in this. Would it kill him just to be a grown-up and replace the clip? No. So why didn't he do it? Doesn't your mum deserve better?

Very mean to talk to old people about ageing and death unless they start the conversation. I'm getting older (60s now) and I'm beset by all kinds of horrible awareness of how I'm wearing out. I know my days are numbered, I can feel it. I've always been fit and healthy and now my joints are aching, I've started to pee myself when I sneeze or laugh, I can't run down the stairs like I used to and my once beautiful hair is getting thin and frizzy and I've had to have it cut short. The hairdresser said to me 'Poor you, yours is the worst kind of old lady hair. Impossible to do anything with.'

I know death is getting closer. So does your mum. You wanted to hurt her, you did hurt her and now you're seeking forgiveness from all the mother-haters of MN. I also used to be driven bonkers by my mother's fussiness and negativity, so I get it. But fortunately I learned to understand why she was who she was (anxious child growing up during the war and post-war years when things were dreadful, always in fear of losing everything she'd got, trapped in a pretty sterile marriage and virtually carer for my dad) and see what the fussing and negativity were really all about.

I don't see the big deal. I'll be dead in 60 years. My parents probably have no more than 20-30.

People love to say things like, "On your deathbed, you won't wish you (thing that they are discouraging you from doing), you'll wish you (thing they are in favour of)" so why is that OK but what you said not? Mum needed a reality check, you provided one.

YANBU at all.

The ‘all mothers are saints who must never be spoken of negatively’ or ‘my mum died how dare you speak badly to yours’ crew are actually as offensive to those of us who have been traumatised by anxious, controlling negative parents as our ‘uncaringness’ is to them.

My mother is a reactor - nothing is ever responded to in a measured, appropriate way. From a spill of water to all out massacre, the emotional response and demands to centre her are the same.

It’s tedious, embarrassing, stressful and pointless. And I have absolutely told her she has too little time left to spend hours every day climbing the walls and demanding everyone perform like circus monkeys to validate her over reactions.

Not a single one of us will think of her after she dies and say ‘I wish I’d let her dominate even more of my life with the over reactions, anxiety and endless criticising for attention’. It’s a shame for her that most people who have spent time with her will be relieved they no longer have to listen to it.

You were nothing to do with the situation. It was between your mother and your father and up to him to remonstrate with her.

Your comment proves that the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree as you appear to be just like your mother.

Nasty comment that was not warranted.

To be fair I think the precision of this one made it a bit more cutting - if it had been either vaguer ('we'll all be dead one day, and will it matter then?') or more generally applicable (the usual 'you could be hit by a bus tomorrow') it would have been less shocking, the implication of what OP said was that she's been looking at actuarial tables to figure out when her mum is likely to go!

However, I am really disturbed by how many people are jumping to the defence of OP's mum, clearly because they identify with her behaviour as their own. Berating anyone because of your own anxiety isn't ok - making a child live on eggshells is emotional abuse.

Harsh? Yes. But at least it's honest. It sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back so I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It doesn't sound like she's been given a reality check before and maybe a bit of a shock is needed for her to realise how problematic her behaviour is. It's also unpleasant seeing your Dad getting yelled at if it's been a relentless issue and he seems worn down - a bit of a protective mechanism can kick in, but that really is your Dad's issue to solve.

However going forward, I'd just focus on finding ways to let all her negativity ping off you - that's her stuff to carry, not yours. Practice beige stock responses - "Oh dear", "That's nice", "That's a shame", "Oh well" - and change the topic. If she doesn't allow you to change topic, walk away from the conversation. You don't owe her any more than that.

If that is too hard, limit the time you spend with her. You can be caring from a protective distance. Don't feel guilt for that.

It's frustrating but older angry mothers spewing negativity isn't too uncommon - and they may have their own reasons for being that way. But it's on her to sort her issues out, not you. All you can do is make sure you have a good view of what is "normal" behaviour so you can identify the parts of what she says that are fair and reasonable, and those that are purely driven by her issues. If you've not had it, it sounds like therapy may be helpful for you.

And perhaps it's worth re-assuring your DH that your harshness in this instance was a reaction and is not an indicator that you'll turn into your mother!

She sounds very difficult to live with, and you snapped after years of this.

But I think you should apologise, tell her you're really sorry, you will miss her enormously when she's gone, and you want her to be happy while you still have it, and you don't like the family arguments. That might stop her bringing it up all the time, and if she does, you can repeat it till it hopefully stops.

I remember my mother making a huge fuss when my DS spilled a small glass of water on the carpet - seeing her do to him what she'd done to me for years really brought the craziness into focus. She made me feel that I was less important than her belongings, and my DS was less important than a carpet, which would seemingly rot.

But it matters to the mother. Everyone has their foibles. I'd respect this lady and put the cereal clip on as she requires. It might not be important to me but it is to her so I'd do it. A little respect for others costs nothing and helps everyone get along.

Love it. Pretty cutting admittedly but sounds as though it's been well earned. I wouldn't feel a moments guilt about it but agree with other posters that once she's had time to regroup she'll throw it in your face at every opportunity.
Life is short, you can either apologise now to head it off or prepare your responses in advance to remind her not to sweat [be a complete b*tch] so much about the small stuff.

No matter what has happened between in the past, that is a truly dreadfully cruel thing to say to anyone, let alone your mother.

My mother is a nightmare and as a family, we have a dark sense of humour. Frankly we've needed it, to get us through some of her worst behaviour.

I would absolutely say this, and it wouldn't bother any of us, even her, in the slightest.

I sometimes ask my dad whether he's sure she hasn't died and got stuck to the sofa.

Why are people focusing on the cereal clip as if this is the one and only issue that really winds the mother up? OP's been very clear that this isn't the case - that she is like this across the board. Clearly some people haven't lived with people like this (equally clearly some people on the thread have been the person like this) but it's completely draining, it isn't a little foible.

I think posters are focusing on the clip because that's the only way they can make out the mother is reasonable abd it the OP and her dad who are evil personified.

It sure is draining, when it's everything and anything. It's very possible, from the level the OP described of negativity and critism the mother hands out, that even if the clip were on it wouldn't be on right or the wrong one and so on.

Does everyone really believe stating a persons likely lifeline ie you will be dead in 15 years is that terrible of a thing to say?
I understand that there is further context to this particular situation but there are a number of of posters who seem to think that this is something you are just not allowed to say to someone? I am 46 and if someone told me I’d be dead in 40 years I would probably tell them that they are right!

This is a misreading of the OP. OP was terrified of her mum’s reaction as she had learnt to be terrified, see the OP. She felt dissonance when the mum hugged her over the spoon as her mum never did that.

I can imagine saying, in exasperation, something like, "What's the point? We could all drop down dead tomorrow and then what would it matter". I don't think it was a terrible remark, the op doesn't 'hate' her mother and has said she has her good points but she is obviously a pernickety, difficult woman. I had one of those and she used to drive me potty, I often made sharp retorts to her - she did to me too - but we got over it. She had many good points too and I loved her but she was very difficult to live with.

Absolutely love the way you say ' OP says her DM is very loving' whilst missing out the remainder of that sentence in some ways but very destructive in others
An absolute classic of selective editing there.

As if a mother who flits between being loving and destructive is not in itself a harmful environment for a child to be in.

And if you read my post you will see I am replying less to OP and more to posters who are arguing its ok for parents to take out their own anxiety and stress on their children - and its not.

OP is also clear this was not a one off incident of a dropped spoon ( so not ' you seem to have built a pretty big story out of a dropped spoon and a DH not putting his cereal away properly' at all), but a constant set of behaviour which had taught her to be scared to tears ( literally) of her mother's reactions.

If you have to lie through minimisation to make your case, you do not have a case.

Nasty comment that was not warranted

That's funny. That's exactly what I was thinking about your post.

However, I am really disturbed by how many people are jumping to the defence of OP's mum, clearly because they identify with her behaviour as their own. Berating anyone because of your own anxiety isn't ok - making a child live on eggshells is emotional abuse=

Completely agree.

Extremely well put.

@aladderformoths Should you mention impending death to an older person? I don't think so. When you reach a certain age things seem different, all the health problems you assumed will just pass or get better when you are young become more, will this get better or is it something I will have to live with from now on, or is this a symptom of something sinister. I realise I may well not be here in 15 years (or less), but I don't need anyone reminding me of it.

I disagree and it should depend on how sensitive you think the person is. I'm an older person and realistically have (hopefully) about 15-20 years left. I don't mind anyone reminding me of it or talking about it because it's true.

Exactly.... The OPs post headline is AIBU to tell someone they will be dead in 15 years so relax. The answer is NO. Death is to Life as Life is to Death. Just because someone reminds you of your mortality doesnt make it less true! Much like the person who is medically overweight not wanting to be told they are overweight.

The problem here is everything else behind the statement. The reaction to the statement by her DM as well as the reason why the OP should even feel she has said the wrong thing in the first place. Clearly not a safe relationship in which to speak the truth. Over sensitive over reactive toxic relationships where people get offended by the smallest things - EVEN IF THEY MAY BE TRUE!

I think people are focusing on the clip because that was what led to the OP saying what she said. Has anyone said anything negative about the dad? If they have I missed it. The OP asked if she was BU, some people think she was some think she wasn't. Not sure where the evil personified comes from.