DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

One thing to think about in all these assessments is whether both the eating and spending are not just ways of coping but - as someone mentioned above - symptoms of dementia. In which case she is not necessarily acting in her best interests. And possibly the carer should be a bit more careful about letting her buy things and eat sugar.

It may have been me and if it wasn't, I agree anyway.

Behavioural changes to do with money are all too common.

( Dad who was generous to a fault, despite not being wealthy, became irrational over money and a complete miser.)

Looking at it realistically, buying that many cashmere jumpers when she possibly isn't going anywhere or wearing them much, sounds like a symptom of her illness.

Because it's irrational behaviour.

I know it may be hard to facilitate, but could you do something to stop this wild spending? At an extreme level it would be taking her credit cards off her and managing her spending online, or if she has cash or cheques.

I'd speak to Age UK and Alzheimer's in order to see what you can do.

She really needs a situation where you or your siblings can veto purchases, using your POA, because she's bordering on incapacity to handle her finances sensibly.

I've not read your posts about her eating BUT my mother had to hide food from my Dad because he couldn't remember what he'd eaten half an hour ago.

eg- he would eat an orange, then another one, and up to a whole bagful, with disastrous effects on his bowels.

Two things are very likely with dementia. The first is full time care. This will need to be paid for. The second is losing the ability to recognise you have wet/soiled yourself. This 4k chair won't see much use and in all probability become soaked and fit for the tip.

I wonder if the care provider has a little racket going on with the chair company?

Yes we do have POA and she's lost capacity to use a bank card or deal with the bank in anyway. She can't use a mobile or the internet. Her spending is facilitated.

So who does her spending for her?
Is this the carer?
Or is it you?

I really hope the carer is not able to use your mum's credit cards and buy things for her.

Does she?

If so it's a complete no-no.

Can't you draw the line and tell your Mum she doesn't need more clothes?
200 scarves?

Such a difficult and stressful situation especially when far away

In regards to the seating at 4 grand it is most definitely specialist seating and as already mentioned it would not be wise to purchase this without an OT assessment.

Riser chairs require a level of cognition to operate or else 24 hour supervision/assistance to use.

Can your mother sit to stand from.the chair she is in? Has she any postural or pressure needs?

I know ow you mentioned reduced mobility is she able to mobilise with an aid?

In regards go the carer I would go back to the agency ahe is not professional at all. As other users have suggested,be worth trying a different agency.

Good luck

We are in control of my mother's finances but carer can use the card and also asks for stuff. I don't think she's dodgy, but she's deeply irritating.

Okay I've found it now @Valleyofthedollymix

This has got to stop.

It's completely wrong to allow a stranger to access your mum's credit cards and buy things for her with them.

The carer could well be buying all sorts of things that you can't keep track of.

If there was an issue with any purchases, you've not have a leg to stand on if you had to speak to the bank and admit a stranger was given your Mum's cards to buy on her behalf.

She could also order things for herself - or anyone - to be delivered to your Mum's house.

I can't believe you are allowing this.

I listened to a really interesting podcast called Intrigue by the BBC which was all about an older lady being exploited financially - in the podcast's case it was by a much younger man who was trying to wheedle his way into her money.

One of the things which they explored was financial decision making. They interviewed two academics who said that decisions around money and spending are often the things that elderly people struggle with the most, with or without dementia. A key point was "in a sample of more than 400 older adults and found that even modest cognitive decline is related to a decline in financial decision-making ability in some older adults"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6245583/

In my own mum it's the other way around, she has LOADS of money and no expensive tastes, won't spend any money despite her having plenty. Very frugal and denies herself things we'd much rather she had. Agree that the way forward is lessening the grip of the carer but good luck with that.

It's not unusual for someone to be unhappy with a carer they are sent and a good agency will replace her. She won't necessarily be sacked - they'll just send her somewhere else. We had a lot of live in carers when my DP were ill and I'm sorry to say this but some of them, both managed through the agency and employed directly by us, were not good at all. It is difficult to find good ones so it might be worth seeing if you can resolve things with your current carer before asking for her to be replaced.

One day your mum will be dead. Buy her the chair. It is her money, after all.

But agree with others regarding the carer...the power these live in carers can wield is amazing. We had it with my father in law, so please be careful.

Also, you sound like a great daughter.

This, you need to cancel the card and order a new one for yourself, carer will have details of the old card. You are not in control of her finances at the moment, you need to use the poa you gave been granted.

@LouisCatorze
Don't think riser recliners come on the NHS.
Yes they do

Yes. Ime there are carers who take the easy road and let the patient do whatever they want - ie go to bed in the middle of the day so they don’t sleep at night etc, eat whatever they want; and there are more responsible, experienced carers who manage the patient so they don’t do things detrimental to themselves, even if it causes a strop - they learn how to manage the strops in that particular patient.

The spending may be driven by DM’s demands, but it could equally be that the carer has found it’s a convenient way of managing DM. DM can’t use the net or the mobile so if the carer doesn’t facilitate that she can’t go on shopping sprees full stop.

I'm going to go against the grain of people mentioning the OP thinking about her inheritence. I actually think it is fine to consider and give weight to the responsibility of inherited family money of whom OPs mother is the current custodian.

I think it would be an absolute waste and a great shame if all that money that was worked so hard for, is pissed away on unneeded tat by an elderly lady with dementia instead of being passed on to, say, her grandchildren to enable them to afford a property.

Her care needs must be met, she should be safe, warm, fed and confortable and she should certainly be able to have some new things and treats. But not this dreadful frivolous waste.

@SomeCatFromJapan Legally OP must do what is best for her mum with her mum's money. Safeguarding an inheritance is financial abuse.
I have seen an elderly lady live in unsuitable surroundings with only basic care and without care that would enhance the quality of her life all to safeguard inheritance.
OP though sounds like she is doing the best for her mother.

@Valleyofthedollymix I am really impressed with your proactive day - your DM is lucky to have you.

From your update it seems the carer has done you a favour, her rudeness in that call is completely bonkers (really how dare she speak to you like that!) and in your shoes I would escalate immediately. A call to the agency manager explaining that you have had concerns for some time about the increase in compulsive behaviour but felt unwilling to cause your DM any grief when she seems to like the carer so much. The way you have been spoken to today has crossed a line and you are no longer happy that this specific carer has your DM's best interests at heart and you are very worried that your relationship is being undermined and your DM's mental and physical health being negatively affected. Bluntly I would ask that the carer not return and I would follow up the call with an email summarising so there is a written dated record of your complaint.

I have more to say but my ghast is just flabbered!

Sorry OP, haven't read the full thread but as someone who has a mum (86) with early dementia, myself and brothers are organising power of attorney right at the moment. Mum is having private carers in daily now and we will be managing finances 100% to prevent any issues.

With my DH's mum,at one point her (private) carers, two sisters, made an appointment with mjum's family solicitor to change the will to include them! Got that nipped in the bud pronto after concerned call from solicitor.

Due to my experiences, I too am concerned that your mum's carer is having too much control over finances. Power of Attorney may be the way forward. Best of luck.

Do you think private OT's get commission for chairs they recommend? I'd be very surprised if they did.

I would be more concerned about the carer. Have you spoken to her. If you have power of attorney over her finances any spending would have to go through you. If she has dementia this would be a good idea.

@asrarpolar That's a fair point. I do think preserving finances for future care is necessary.

My mother had dementia and I do think this might be part of the disease as she became really focused on money too and would hound my father to take her to the bank to make withdrawals even with the last few hundred she had already taken out still in her purse.

I work for the nhs and provide seating for people. 4.5k would purchase a chair for people with significant postural needs. If she is mobile and doesnt have a scoliosis and good sitting balance then she doesnt need a chair like this. If and when you do need specialist seating check out Care flex.

If the carer is getting annoyed with you I would remind her that there is finite money in the bank and at the rate she is spending money the money will be home before your mothers mother does so if she isn’t going to continue to be your mothers carer for free then you don’t appreciate her encouraging your mother to spend money she will need for basic care as the years go on.

The carer might not be scamming your mother out of money but could she be subsidising her own lifestyle with a cashmere cardigan or 2 (I mean are you going to miss one or 2 if she has so many or a few packets of smoked salmon here and there etc.)

I would be trying to find out if this woman has an eBay account or is on Facebook and have a look at if she is selling anything.

It doesn‘t have to be a huge amount but over the years it does add up.

@asrarpolar this is exactly what I witnessed.

I just purchased one of those chairs for my DF and it cost 1/4 the price you are being quoted. We got a nice neutral color and he's ever so comfortable in it. What you are being asked to pay is outrageous, IMO.

Their criteria are strict - eg oedema, scoliosis, certain neurological conditions.