Cockroach cafe 🪳 Summer 2023 🪳

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome! I’ve done a really good clean of the place overnight, and brought in sweet peas, and raspberries from the garden to go with the scones and clotted cream.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or to ask a small question that doesn't warrant its own thread. Or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. So 🪳 mes amis/amies, and may you all live to fight another day.

DFiL was moved to a nursing home last week. We went for a visit on Saturday and it's better than the hospital and the people are nice but it's a fairly rough old council funded place! My DH was shocked at the £981 a week price tag. He said 'is that £98 or £981' so niave! The family has refused to pay. It's meant to be temporary while SS find a flat for the in-laws together. DMiL has visited twice in 5 months. I keep offering to take her and she makes excuses. It's very sad. He's just stuck lying in bed waiting to die. He can't move due to stroke but his mind is pretty much functioning fine. He has the odd crazy moment but that's fair enough. This is definitely a situation where the right to die could be humane if that's what he wants! He's very much at the maudlin stage where he is looking back at his life and realising there isn't much left. All of our parents were doing well not so long ago and they have toppled at the same time!

We had the "prepare yourselves" call about MIL nearly 3 weeks ago but were told it could take a few weeks. Last week snd at the weekend she was looking better and more cheerful than she has all summer. Last night we got a call to say she gas taken a turn for the worse and if anyone wants to see her they had better come in the next week. Youngest son is flying home for a couple of days Thursday night so he can say goodbye.
We are well into our 8th year of elderly parent care. This will be the 3rd loss in less than 2 years. Soon there will just be mum who's alzheimers is progressing very slowly so we could have another 10 years or more. Mum is at the stage where she needs support rather than care and doesn't accept she needs support or hearing aids. We get random crises like she has lost her debit and credit cards 3 times this year. Always both although she hasn't actually used her credit card for a couple of years. Every time she gets in a tizz and gets distressed by everything for a couple of weeks. It's hard to predict what is going to cause an upset so difficult to mitigate. Things like a mouse in the kitchen didn't strike her as a problem but a few weeks ago she convinced herself she was overpaying for electricity for no valid reason and her summer bills are tiny as she has solar panels. Took all my effort to stop her cancelling the direct debit after DB had taken time to make sure she was on the best tariff.

Dahlia that seems a wrong thing to say to you but I realise she was desperate when she said it. My friend pulled out "we're lucky to still have our mothers". I mean, what can you do? You can't make people understand.

countrygirl "I told someone I envied orphans and they were horrified"

I understand you saying that. There's a guy who did some work on my flat and I had to leave a long gap between jobs because of being ill. I was very blunt with him about why I was ill and he looked very sympathetic and said "yes, I was extremely relieved when I became an orphan".

I don’t think anyone can understand what it’s like to be permanently on call. Long day, settle in front of TV with DH to unwind … except you can’t. A phone call may come any minute, and when it does, you don’t know what you’ll find. Dad on floor with blood up the walls all around. Remember that happening a couple of times.

We went for a visit on Saturday and it's better than the hospital and the people are nice but it's a fairly rough old council funded place! Sounds like where DF is now, except it’s private. He’s very happy there and has good (reciprocated) relationships with manager and several of the nurses and carers. £981 is a good price for a nursing home.

definitely at a stage in life where parents and ILs take up more time and causing most worries. Luckily MiL is relatively settled in nursing home as she was dominating my life for a while and I think I would have packed my bag and disappeared if more help hadn’t come from her own family!!!

I Haven’t seen MiL for two weeks as we have been away two weekends. DH said ‘but DB is seeing her’ - I was a bit short with him because his DB told us both he was cutting visits to one a month and no he wasn’t seeing her!!. Other BiL is away for 6 weeks. So MiL has had no visitors.

Had a weekend away at DS ‘second home’ with DB, lovely SiL, DS, DH and parents. Parents who are old and don’t like to admit it. Deaf mother who just turns tv so loud no one can hear and can’t walk without holding onto someone. Father has hearing aid but says it doesn’t work. This resulted in mother shouting and father not hearing so DS shouts it louder. DF absolutely lost it ‘shouting and swearing at DS’ he thought she was belittling him apparently. He looses it over some minor thing every time we see him. He ruined a family party for my birthday reducing me to tears, DH told everyone party over go home and hasn’t really forgiven DF. Tbh nor have I, for his outburst a few weeks ago when I offered to show him something on my phone. Where he screamed and swore about evil effing phones. Tbh I haven’t forgiven DF for the two affairs he had, first when I was 16 and second when I had first child. My poor DM had been depressed over a big move for DFs career and all the time he was seeing a colleague. Second time a mutual friend of theirs who even sent a present for my newborn - when I found it was her I gave the toy to charity. But DS seems to have forgotten how devastated my mother was and how hard it was moving for DF career 7 times in 16 years. It was hard on us too…. I think I had mild depression and DM absolutely did, but DF selfish and attention seeking didn’t think about us.

DS forgave DF his viscous attack. She says DM is hard to live with and not nice to DF. As they deteriorate and start to need help it will be hard, they won’t admit to the help they need and DM won’t admit she can’t hear. I do wonder about their GP! Surely they see DF shuffles and is bent over and DM can’t walk without help but won’t use a stick.

They have always been busy and independent and lived full lives. They have never offered to come and stay and babysit - we had to ask once so that we could go to a good friends wedding. They would not even be on call when I was having third child. MiL would have but her DH was ill and she didn’t drive. Now DF keeps saying come and see us soon and I think, not sure I want another outburst and to be the one who is shouted at for no reason and DM crying or looking embarrassed.

DF deliberately says controversial things to try and get attention so DH and I have learned to ignore it. DF was telling us about a good friend from work and golf crowd he has be friends with for years, who organised a lunch and he wasn’t invited. DM said it was probably that he forgot but I wonder whether they find his behaviour annoying too🤔.

DH doesn’t enjoy having to bite his tongue and find common ground so he gets stressed about visiting - when there he does all the driving because we can’t bear being in car with DFs driving.

I feel guilty about not visiting as much as they clearly want, For now having to visit MiL is an excuse…. We do host Christmas though.

I think I can see what could be beginnings of dementia in both, mother repeats same stories about friends and family every time I see her, and doesn’t remember (or hear) what I have told her. DF said he had been to the ornithologist instead of audiologist, he copied an address wrong and other little signs.

will have to let them muddle on, they live 2 1/2 hours away and have kind neighbours and still many local friends, I gave them details of falls alarms that they asked about but they don’t seem to have got any further with it yet.

DS, DSiL and I compare notes after visits. Time will tell.

Countrygirl wishing your MIL peace.

My best friend lost both her parents to short but brutal cancer in their late 80s. Until then they had both been reasonably active and neither had signs of dementia. What she went through in nursing them was absolutely horrible but - and I feel terrible saying this- it was brief, less than three months in each case.

So I don’t think she gets it at all. I often get ‘I wish my DM was still around so we could go out from breakfast, lunch etc’. I want to say that I feel the same, that I wish my DM of a few years ago was still around.

Currently waiting for Social services to call back. She’s been referred to the multi disciplinary team but they suggested in the interim we get a private carer in. My DB is away but when he’s back we’ll have a chat about it. I’ve cut down my visits to once a day, late afternoon so I can make sure she’s had lunch and do any little jobs like washing, hoovering. Today I have to do her shopping.

Her GP brought up the DNR question with me last week. I think I’ll talk to DB about it first. Not sure whether to broach it with DM or not.

I feel really bad for saying this but when people are terminally ill you know there's generally a timescale.

With something like Parkinson's or dementia, it can (and often does) go on for years.
It's interminable. 🫤

Best doesn't your mum have to agree to a DNR?

Re your friend, I can't fathom missing a parent who was late 80s. I probably upset my mum by saying I don't want to take her out any more. She's too wobbly and frail. She still wants to get rid of her carers - when I suggested she get them to take her for a walk, she was confused by the idea. It's not her fault of course, it's just things don't occur to her.

Tarmaced yes, my father didn't get an official terminal diagnosis till about two days before he died. We are so at the mercy of the individual personality of doctors. But as we have brains in our heads, we knew it was the end and said goodbye to each other in August. Stubborn git hung on for three months. But it much as it was hell, my mum might suffer extended hell...she'll outlive me at this rate.

And she doesn't have a diagnosis really, just general frailty.

I'm meeting a friend today and I'm just exhausted as I spent most of yesterday in tears (due to all the financial and practical mistakes I've made because I thought I'd care for my mum). I'm even dreading the walk to the station I'm that tired, why does this shit always kick off when you have nice things planned?

What a horrendous mess. I blame myself, I have to take responsibility of course. But I still think the problems of her initial refusal to have care and just expect me to do it is why I had a breakdown, which is taking a bloody long time to recover from.

What a horrendous mess. I blame myself, I have to take responsibility of course

You need to stop blaming yourself, Emma. I am quite sure that nobody on this thread (and nobody who has been in your position) would be blaming you.

I do not blame you.

You need an extended period of recuperation now. Much longer than you imagine, I think.

@EmmaEmerald you must not blame yourself. No one else would. I’m well aware of how guilty the situation makes you feel - I’m sitting here with coffee when I should be out doing DMs shopping. Enjoy your day with your friend.

I feel bad because DM is so frail but I want to be planning to do things with DH. I retired six months ago and my plan was certainly not to be caring for DM. I feel she’ll go on for years too. Her heart, lungs etc are all in top order.

I’m a bit hazy on whether DM has to consent to a DNR. The GP talked a lot about whether she has capacity and at the end of the day it would be a medical decision but I’m not sure how best to approach the discussion- which is what I want to discuss with DB. We do have POA but again I’m not sure at what point that becomes applicable.

It’s complicated for me as we saw paramedics attempt resuscitation on DF (unsuccessfully). It was awful and I have no idea what his quality of life would have been like had he survived but we had talked about DNRs - he was outraged that a friend had been asked the question and I knew he would have wanted them to try.

Another long post sorry.

Emma it isn’t anything you could change. You must find time and an excuse to have a break from the worry. I started a course one afternoon a week and told MiL and carers my phone would be off. It kept me sane - although I found the tutor so scary that it wasn’t quite what I had hoped for! But I think it was my anxiety at the time made me super sensitive, so keep an eye out and let people near you know when you are worrying.

DH family now cutting visits to MiL to less than one a month which puts pressure on him, he doesn’t complain but he always asks me to accompany him because he does find it hard to deal with. He wouldn’t tell his DBs that sadly, whereas I would share! Sharing and asking for help will give you strength.🤞.

On DNR a hospital doctor called me to ask before MiLs second op because he couldn’t get an answer from family. Luckily I could and the bros had discussed it and agreed. We don’t have LPoA on health but GP and hospital acted on sons say so and the care home has the certificate now.

@BestIsWest this us my understanding of all medical decisionmaking, including DNACPR;.

1. Medical decision on benefits vs cost of resuscitation for this person
2. Discuss with them and get their views on the medical decision. They can't definitely get treatment/resuscitation if the dr thinks there's no benefit, but they can refuse it.
3. Is there any reason to think this person may temporarily or permanently not have mental capacity to refuse resuscitation (or, in practice, to request resuscitation?) If not, assume they do have capacity.

1. If they may not have MC, assess formally

1. If no capacity, consultant/GP makes decision in their best interests. This should include their views and family views. It should be the least restrictive option.

When i say 'cost' of resuscitation, I mean the downsides of it, like probable broken ribs/trauma/long recovery/non recovery etc, not the money cost!

Thanks @PermanentTemporary. Reading through that, DM doesn’t have capacity (Alzheimer’s) and if ultimately it came down to it I don’t think it would be in her best interests and GP knows my thoughts.

I'm blaming myself for the financial and practical mess i have made.

that is no one's fault but mine.

I don't give a shiny shite about the rest of it any more, but to cock up financially - new flat appears a very bad buy - now in possession of two flats riddled with issues and hard to sell.

and I know that money is far more important than anything else, but somehow I thought it would be okay money wise and mum was more important. Did aliens take over my brain or something?

stupid, stupid me. There is no recuperation time in terms of sorting out the money, I've got to get stuff sorted now. I've done nothing since the breakdown in July.

this week I'm going to decide if I am going back to my original home...it might get pushed into next week I guess but hopefully not. I will tell mum that if I do that, she effectively needs to imagine I've moved abroad. I am not doing that bloody four hour round trip any more.

i think the only way my anger will fade is if i go back there even for a short period.

sorry, I realise this is totally off topic

But to be clear - I have zero guilt about walking away from mum. I did feel guilty at the start but have seen sense.

@EmmaEmerald sounds like you’ve got so much on your plate. And you have done so much for your dm. Big decisions here- is there a trusted impartial friend you could chew it over with?

Yes, I talked to my friend yesterday but she mostly kept on with "what about your mum if you move back".

I talked to two other friends about the other aspects today. Emotionally I want to go back to my old place because I've missed it since I left, and it's bigger. Horrible rough area though. Not like that when I bought it of course.

since leaving, .i have sat on the floor here, the new place, and just wept at least three times, because I miss my old flat.

Have to be careful who I talk to because it does all sound very "my diamond shoes are too tight".

But maybe my anger will be assuaged by going home, and starting over. It was a mistake to move. There is an offer on the flat but he's going so slowly, there's no enthusiasm, and frankly the law allows me to pull out 🤷🏻‍♀️, though that's another big legal bill.

One law firm quoted me £900 extra to deal with a high rise! so there's also an argument of "get rid of it while you can".

I've got to check on the old flat tomorrow, in this new headspace, I might have a visceral emotional reaction either way. And this time, travel to mum is not a factor.

@EmmaEmerald Fast forward to a period in time to when DM is no longer around. Where would you like to live then?

I'm guessing you mean in terms of the choices I have now?

I'd stay here, in the new place, but mum's house would be empty so that makes things completely different, I could make use of that till it got sold. So I guess really, I'm saying I'd live at her house!

I think it's important to work on the basis that she will live several years though. Longevity is a sad trend on her side of the family, her elder brothers lived into their 90s, bedridden.

Quite a stressful period for you, @EmmaEmerald. I guess I’m saying, take your DM out the equation and prioritise yourself.

Good advice@Mum5net .

That's what I'm doing, just so hard to deal with the anger that I was so dumb in the first place.

This might sound bad, but if your DM no longer lived nearby, would you enjoy your new home a lot more? Is the area right for you, even though you have less space? If you can’t put your anger aside, leave the decision for a bit longer.

I have a quick aside to share.
Unusually, I have a wisdom tooth coming through. A root canal tooth lower back had to come out in July. Amazingly, a replacement one is making an appearance even though I’m 61. Such an odd feeling. My dentist said there was a minuscule possibility the extraction might cause a bit of movement. No point rushing to tell him because I m pretty sure he concluded there isn’t enough room.

I hope all is OK with your DM moving back to her room Hairbrush, that's a hard situation to be in.

Hope your MiL is peaceful Countrygirl

EmmaEmerald there is a lot of social and institutional pressure to give unrealistic levels of support to elderly parents, even when it's very bad for our own health.

I am still pootling on, DM in her care home, me living quite a long way away but visiting. Next year I will move and that will be quite a bit closer, an hour on the train away, but not so close I feel claustrophobic. I've prioritised having a life of my own, DM is early nineties and I'm nearly retired (early), so I keep an eye on her and make sure things are the best they can be in re how she lives. It's not what either of us would have wanted but here we are, and now she is in a care home I can at least look more fondly on her, not having the 'on call' panic I had previously, even though we've always had a 'complicated' relationship.